I'm going to preface this by announcing that I am going to cover a lot of ground. I recently completed my Tals set. I am interested in MF (and finding runes through means other than LK spam). I have questions about player count.

I have been running a full blizzard sorc. Recently, I've been primarily running baal runs. I enter the throne room at /players 1, and then set it to /players 5 for the waves and Baal kill. I am interested in using my Tal set, but it feels like an overall downgrade to my pure blizzard sorc. The survival boost is unnecessary and the damage is lower. I do not have a perfect spirit yet, so I use an fcr @res ring to reach 105 fcr bp until then. I've found that the Tal set is better for a dual tree sorc (and probably a pure lightning sorc for if / when I find 2x ber for infinity). Initially I tried a meteorb setup, but I was unhappy with how weak frozen orb feels on /players 3 & 5. I tried again with a blizzball setup, which had good throne room clear speed on /players 3 & 5, but my Baal kill time raised significantly with the weaker blizzard- the fireball damage higher than ice blast in my pure blizz setup did not accommodate me with similar Baal kill times. Additionally, my dual tree sorc eats a lot more mana, so I switch from eth thresher obedience to non-eth CV insight. Sorc is level 90.

Pure Blizzard Gear / Stats:

Helm: Shako - Ptopaz
Armor: Vipermagi 33@res / 13 mdr
Shield: 33fcr spirit
Belt: Goldwrap
Weapon: Occy
Glove: Magefist (I like the mana regen over cold res from trang for insight-less merc).
Boot: Rare 23 lr, 35 fr, 9 pr, 20 mf
Necklace: +3 cold skill / 19 str
Ring1: BK
Ring2: SOJ
Anni
Necro Torch for atts / resists
Very low Gheeds
mf / resist small charms

105 fcr bp
42 fhr bp
61 fr / 61 cr / 75 lr / 73 pr
1215 life
629 mana
244 mf
5520 - 5772 blizzard damage
2934 - 3023 ice blast damage
-150 cold res (level 27 CM)
1449 defense with frozen armor

Merc:

Weapon: eth thresher obedience
armor: duriel's shell
helm: vamp gaze (I recently found an andy's- will experiment with this some in the future, but for now I prefer the pdr%)

Lots of damage. Good MF. Clears Baal waves / Baal on players 5 with little issues (Merc handles cold immune skeles quickly and can kill wave 5 elite if he spawns cold immune. Merc also clears cold immunes in room on players 1 prior to Baal waves).

Now, my dual spec sorcs can clear /players 1 Baal waves faster than blizzard sorc clears /players 5 baal waves by not relying on my merc to handle the cold immunes in the room and waves. For this, I've utilized full Tal set, which makes me happy. The +% cold damage and -fire / light resistances seems to boost the dual sorc handsomely, and the loss of occy tele is nice. For MF purposes, I've read a lot of mixed ideas on whether it is better to prefer greatest clear times on low /players 1 over anything else. I had played around with blizzball at players 5, and the clear speeds in baal rooms felt about the same as when pure cold and relying on merc to kill the few cold immunes, but clearing the room with a lot of cold immunes in it prior to baal waves certainly is faster. Baal kill is a lot slower. I've tried Players 1 with a Blizz Nova sorc, and I really like the cold / light mix, but I may try returning to meteorb or blizz ball for players 1 as I haven't tested those specs on the lowest player count yet. My question is it worth running my games a little faster at players 1 as dual spec? I believe I will see less rune drops at players 1 than players 5, but so far I have only found 2x ort at players 5 in 20 - 30 runs anyways.

Blizz Nova setups:

Level 30 Nova
Level 30 Blizzard
Level 30 Ice Blast
Level 27 CM
Some hard points in Ice Bolt
Level 19 LM

2133 - 2207 Ice Blast
3348 - 3525 Blizzard
-150% Cold Resist
-15% Light Resist
808 - 1090 Nova

or

Level 30 Nova
Level 30 Blizzard
Level 30 Ice Blast
Level 17 CM
Some hard points in Ice Bolt
29 LM

2133 - 2207 Ice Blast
3348 - 3525 Blizzard
-100% Cold Resist
-15% Light Resist
1074 - 1448 Nova Damage

Meteorb Setups:

Level 30 Frozen Orb
Level 27 Cold Mastery
Level 31 Fire Ball
Level 31 Meteor
Level 13 Fire Mastery (no points spent with tal set)
Rest in Fire Bolt (I prefer the fireball damage over meteor damage)

477 - 500 Frozen Orb
-150% Cold Resist
-15% Fire Resist
4497 - 4943 Fire Ball
9803 - 10248 Meteor (May be good for killing Baal)

or

Level 30 Frozen Orb
Level 17 Cold Mastery
Level 31 Fire Ball
Level 31 Meteor
Max Fire Bolt
Level 15 Fire Mastery (rest go here)

477 - 500 Frozen Orb
-100% Cold Resist
-15% Fire Resist
5770 - 6342 Fire Ball
!2052 - 12599 Meteor (May be good for killing Baal)

Blizzball Setup:

Level 30 Blizzard
Level 30 Ice Blast
Level 17 Cold Mastery
Max Fire Bolt
Level 31 Fire Ball
Level 20 Fire Mastery

2704 - 2847 Blizzard
1642 - 1699 Ice Blast
-100% Cold Resist
-15% Fire Resist
3832 - 4212 Fire Ball Damage

I haven't tried other Blizzball setups. This spec cleared players 5 thrones a lot nicely. With the other dual tree specs on players 5, either the cold damage was too low (meteorb), or the element splashed with cold did not add enough damage to clear cold immunes quickly (Blizz Nova). However, the Blizznova & Meteorb specs killed Baal on players 5 faster than the blizzball. In terms of Players 5 baal waves, pure blizzard and blizzball felt best. It's unfortunate how much more slowly the baal kills were with blizzball. The nova damage was not sufficient for killing cold immunes in players 5, but it does help in players 1 thrones prior to waves when cold immunes are present. Blizzball can enter the throne room on players 5 prior to baal waves without any issues, where the pure blizzard can take some time for merc to kill CI vampires, but this time difference can be mostly offset by entering the throne room on players 1. Similarly, a dense pocket of hellwitches are much less threatening to my merc when they are cleared on players 1 with nova or fireball, or even on players 5 with fireball in blizzball or meteorb specs.

I haven't experimented much with players 1 full clears with any specs yet, and I am not yet sure that a dual tree tal sorc will do better or at least nearly on par with a pure blizzard sorc here. I can test that, but I'm wondering if it's even worth it to run players 1 faster when my players 5 is pretty fast with pure blizzard.

Sorry for the rant. Ask any questions you'd like in the comments and let me know your thoughts on these topics I may have poorly covered so far! Thanks!

This post was edited by d3trapsin on May 4 2021 10:53am

Honestly did not read it all, I am just wondering why you are having issues and not using /P8 with the Tals set? (Cold Sorc)

What strategies do you apply?
... Okay, just an example of what I do for throne: All cold immunes I draw out of the area where the waves spawn, or telestomp furthest away, static and let merc kill while I walk (reposition myself). At times I like to clear throne of all monsters by removing left and right before going to Baal area. I love Glacial Spike for non immunes / souls & dolls ... again, I use static for merc to kill them off.

Anyway... is it the speed of the run that is important for you? I use Blizzard after freezing packs with Glacial spike and Baal while merc is keeping him at bay after Static.

By rights you should be doing decent speed runs using /P5 or lower.

This post was edited by izParagonzi on May 4 2021 07:50pm

My merc sometimes dies against CI wave 5 elite on player count greater than 5. My main issue with full tal cold sorc is that it is worse than my normal pure blizz setup I posted. The damage is less.

Hmm, to be honest, been 10 years since I played Sorc on SP (have one on v1.11b that is 48 SP / P8 without any gear for 8 years). Strategy wise vs Wave 5... do you draw Lister and the group AWAY from the area where Baal uses Decrepify radius effect?

Basically if you are having issues with wave 5, it is your merc setup or your strategy that is the issue. You rely too much on thinking your Blizzard kills faster then in fact the damage isn't that much of a difference.

Hey, just a difference in play style, but if you are doing more damage and having issues with Tals Set, maybe it is what you have socketed in three (3) pieces. i.e. 5/5 facets or not?