wow such detail. great job

great guide. very detailed and interesting.

nice

I just realized that i did not do a "side by side" comparason between Windforce and a Faith bow. Well, no time like the present to add this information to this long azz post.

windforce stats:



faith stats:



So where to begin. Well, lets ignore what kind of bow you make faith in and just deal with the mods granted by the item/runeword. The pro's of windforce are:

Built in Knockback, mana leech, scaling damage

the pro's of faith are:

built in fanaticism aura, + skills, AR bonus

The cons of Windforce are:

well damn, there arent any really. I mean sure its a TC87 piece so it makes it rather hard to find. But when you calculate in the odds of finding a Jah coupled with the odds of finding an Ohm, finding a windforce should be like stubbing your toes. I mean the odds to find an ohm are double the odds for finding a windforce for crying out loud! Odds for finding said items:

1 : 569,039 Mephisto ~ 1st kill - [H] Durance of Hate Level 3 - {mlvl 87} Best chance at a Jah
1 : 108,856 Andariel ~ 1st kill - [H] Catacombs Level 4 - {mlvl 75} Best chance at an Ohm

coupled together this equils 1 in 61,943,309,384 when both kills are quest kills. The odds to win a standard, non-powerball lotery of 47 numbers is 1 in 7,731,052,560.

for a windforce -
1 : 24,638 Baal ~ 1st kill - [H] The WorldStone Chamber - {mlvl 99}
1 : 37,249 Baal ~ [H] The WorldStone Chamber - {mlvl 99} if you have already mat'ed or pat'ed your character.
1 : 51,674 Pindleskin ~ [H] Nihlathak's Temple - {mlvl 86} more realistic MF location for a windforce as he is easy and fast to run.

The cons of Faith:

see above, finding the "perfect bow" to make it in, the randomness of the slvl of fanaticism which leads to lower IAS and lower damage, low damage to start with, NO knockback, NO mana leech

So lets say you are "leet" and had the amazing ability to find those 2 runes. There is still the Lem to find as well as the "perfect bow." Lots of discusson this has been done and the majority agree on a Matriarchal Bow [ -10 speed and 33.5 avg damage ] for pure speed and a Grand Matron Bow [ 10 speed and 43 avg damage ] for pure power. I do not subscribe to this at all. I would prefer a Ward Bow [ 0 speed and 36.5 avg damage ] for the simple fact that if you get bored of the zon, you can give this bow to an act 1 merc. Besides the speed is an increase over the GMB and slower than the MB, but the damage is better than the MB but lower than the GMB. Now that you have your bow choice, lets look at the finished results of the bow damage wise.

Faith in a ward bow would give you a damage range on the bow of 86 to 228 ( average of 157). Windforce has a damage range of ( for your average character of 85 ) 35 to 504 ( average of 269 ). Sure the minimum damage is better on Faith than Windforce, but the average and max damage on windforce is far larger. "But what about the fanatacism? Doesn't it improve things much?" I knew you were going to ask these questions, so lemme attempt to figure out the actual damages. Keep one thing in mind, these calculations are just what I think is happening and not what could actually be occuring in the game.

Worst case scenario in a ward bow with a slvl12 fanatacism

290 to 768 with an average damage of 529

Best case scenario in a ward bow with a slvl15 fanatacism

334 to 885 with an average damage of 609

So damage has increased and IAS has been added. HOWEVER, this in no way shape or form changes the fact that Faith is still missing the Knockback, Mana Leech, and scaling damage. Why are these things so damn important? Well lets find out shall we?

Knockback - This mod is quite simply the most important mod for a bowzon to have. This will keep "most" of the critters away from you as you plug away at them with your arrows. Having this mod included on the bow frees up your glove spot allowing you to equip whatever gloves you really want. This now allows you to not have to create or buy those godly IAS/KB crafted safety gloves. This means you can equip Laying of Hands and gain an added 350% offweapon ED against deamons. This eliminates the fanatacism from faith for this example.

Mana Leech - this mod included on the bow allows you to free up either an amulet or ring slot. For arguments sake, we are going to reference a ring slot. Since almost all bowzons are wearing a Raven Frost on one finger, this allows you to have whatever you want on your other finger. If you need life leech, toss on a 5% BK ring. Hey, lookie there, we added one of those 2 possible skills from faith. Since we now have LL and ML taken care of, we can now add either Highlords or Cat's Eye for amulets if we are still lacking in the IAS department. If IAS is ok, then we can add ATMA's amulet for the added CtC Amp Damage which in effect adds on 100% offweapon ED. Fanatacism is looking less and less godly aint it?

Scaling damage - Let me pose this question to you. Wouldn't you like to increase your damage output without changing a single piece of your gear? I mean not adding in a socketable into an item, not tossing in a charm into your backpack. I mean raising your damage without doing a damn thing. Yes? I thought so! Besides, going back to the arguement about being able to make the faith bow, you probably are not going to be wearing a fortitude armor either. So having the ability to raise your damage is highly important to most players out there.

I have a feeling the ED from fanatacism stacks with the ED on a fortitude armor so the extra ~250% when added on to the standard 300% from fortitude is not going to matter all that much. Besides, if you have a Faith bow, you had damn well better have a fortitude armor on. So, there are the main differences between a Faith bow and a Windforce bow. Sure you can make faith in an amazon specific bow and get an extra +3 bow and crossbow skills, but is that measly ED really worth it since you are probably using strafe or multishot and your overal damage is cut by 25% before appling the skill ED? Sure there are some juicy bits to a Faith bow, but due to the mods built in on Windforce, there really is no comparason between these 2 bows.

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These are my opinions and are not in any way shape or form meant to be taken as facts. Everyone plays the game the way they like. IF you do not like my suggestions or think I am totally full of crap, so be it. It is your right to have that opinion. It is also my right to have my opinion.

This post was edited by The_Morpheus on Aug 28 2007 10:26pm

Holy fucking shit I read this entire guide from page 1 to page 154 and I can say one thing..... morpheus how the fuck do you know so much about bowazons? I mean holy fucking shit you put in information that nobody even wanted to know!!!! And yeah... havent played for 3 months so my char got deleted and Im new to jsp so I have to ask how do you PM i know its a nooby question but how? If somebody could reply it'd be much appreciated and morpheus..... You are officially the hands down most knowledgable diablo 2 player I have ever met... or at least read his guide Gj man keep up the good work.

This post was edited by HaZeD_DrEaM on Aug 29 2007 01:25am

From post 1 to post 154***

i like your guide don't like the armor you made fort in... think that was a misstake you use such a high stregnth amror.
thinking about taking my stripped pvp bow and giving her mavs to pvm with. lol dont think it will go over so well but well see..

in your debate about faith and wind force i think its preference... keeping in mind you can get the runes..

devils addvocate:

Knock back is solved with the best bowa gloves ever self craft 20 ias kb gloves... doesn't take much and are not hard to trade for those 2 mods..

and scalling damage sure if you feel its a big point keep it for yourself...
faith gives you 3XX plus damage constently and oyu can use faith at lvl 65.

You also forgot tomention a very important pvm mods that faith has.

Level 12-15 Fanaticism Aura When Equipped (varies)
+1-2 To All Skills (varies)<<<< helps with all pasive skills
+330% Enhanced Damage<<< no scaling bull sh!t
Ignore Target's Defense<<< great help with strife and multi
300% Bonus To Attack Rating<<<< another great help becak in pvm your not always using GA
+75% Damage To Undead<<<<< nice
+50 To Attack Rating Against Undead
+120 Fire Damage<<<sure why not...
All Resistances +15<<< this help too
10% Reanimate As: Returned<<<< somg more minons!!!!
75% Extra Gold From Monsters <<<<< awwww Gambling!!!!!


Windforce
250% Enhanced Damage
+ (3.125 Per Character Level) 3-309 To Maximum Damage (Based On Character Level)<<<< at lvl 73 for both zons i bet faith beats it
20% Increased Attack Speed<<<<< takes alot more IAS to hit las bp And speed>then damage
6-8% Mana Stolen Per Hit (varies)<<<< dual leach ring
Heal Stamina Plus 30%<<<<< um ok.....
+10 To Strength
+5 To Dexterity
Knockback <<<<<< this is taken care of on faith with 20 ias KB gloves so no big deal.


my opionon faith has better qualities.. plus you put it in a MAT faith you have your BP easily hit... with wind force you will be shooting very slow....

BUt again i'm plaing devils addvocate becaue if you mf'ing you probaly can't afford a faith....

just food for thought



All in all nice guide.


i just like getting on the Windforce/ faith debates!!!

This post was edited by Dam_n on Aug 29 2007 02:03pm

I know this is a very nooby question (I never had a zon be4) but would tals belt/armor/mask be a good combination for this zon? Gives dual leech on helm (10 ll, 10 ml ) almost hits the 200 mf your looking for (32 travs will get you to 200 on the nose) and gives mediocre resists and not bad defense. Or am I complety wrong...... I dont know any thoughts would be appreciated.

This post was edited by HaZeD_DrEaM on Aug 29 2007 02:22pm

Oh yeah and Morpheus Gravepalm/Ghoulhide > LoH b/c most of the things in CS are undead not demons (only demons are VL and Diablo) and SC, OK, and DK are all undead...

1. my forti was made in that armor because I still had to reach the str req's of windforce which is higher than the armor. Your point is not valid here.
2. my argument is that by having KB on bow, you dont have to trade for or create the crafted gloves. Again, this allows for LoH gloves and the extra 350% ED to deamons
3. the ITD does not allow you to eliminate razortail as pierce and penetrate are not the same skill. ITD does not work against act bosses either. Pierce should be at 100% in PvM always. Easiest way to
4. reanimate - sure its nice to have skellies, but these guys dont help you all that much. they do not follow you nor will they teleport to "catch up" to you. If you enter a new area via stairs up or down, they do not follow you. Their damage is pathetic and they truely cannot stand their own ground. Extra Meat shield? maybe. But dont you have a merc, valk, and decoy already?
5. ML on WF - dual leech rings are hard to locate and even harder to find with better mods than the leeches. Having WF frees the ML ring spot for either some LL (5% BK to make of for the soooooo important skills on faith) or another raven.
6. You can obtain the 9/2 strafe bp with a windforce, but I would prefer to hit the 9/3 so that i am not so gear comprimised.
7. as a legit player, faith is completely not an option. And it truely doesnt matter if I am MFing or questing. This is a PvM build and not a PvP build. Faith is more of a PvP bow than a PvM bow.

Playing devil's advocate is fine. This stirs up conversations and opens minds to new ideas. You do not agree with my choices and I do not agree with yours.