I think you need to work on your reading comprehension skills and less... rage lol

the example I gave still isn't being refuted by you.. interesting

you keep saying I'm wrong, again.. what part of what I said was wrong please elaborate

if I thought of pay to win like you, I can say literally any game in the entire world is pay to win

this is why it is important to define 'pay to win' before you have a discussion, also you getting worked up doesn't make your argument better it makes you look like a BEYTAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Correct.

If a external website can be used to make a game p2w then the very nature of the game is p2w.

D2jsp can't make counter strike or valorant p2w unless you consider boosting p2w.

Diablo immortal has pvp as well, so by that other guys logic diablo immortal isn't p2w because you can still lose in pvp even if you buy all your shit.

Meaning his logic is completely flawed in regards to pvp. Or everyone else's opinion is wrong about immortal.

You can buy power in both games, one you buy from the company and the other you buy from a website. The result is still the same.

The other guy literally defined p2w in his own way and then disproves his own theory the next post.

( notices how his last post is like 95% insults ) that's the definition of someone who can't actually rebute facts.

This post was edited by AlphaofAlphas on Jun 8 2022 01:34am

bro you are delusional as fuck and no one thinks you won this argument LOL hahahahahahaha


you literally tried to make shit up that I said.. you are like that lady from channel 4 news vs jordan peterson (me)



this is you: 'so you're saying.... diablo immortal isn't pay to win'

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA



here I'll quote it again, not once did you refute anything I said here because it is factual:

Quote (SlamFkingDunk @ Jun 7 2022 01:15pm)

I don't think you know what pay to win is

A website is not pay to win, a GAME is pay to win

it doesn't matter how much money you spend on diablo 2 or counter strike, the games are not pay to win, but that depends on how you define 'winning'

being boosted to global to me is not winning, winning is being good enough to play in global or get to global

by your logic you think being able to buy power in any game makes a game pay to win, so again, technically EVERY game is pay to win according to your definition



This post was edited by SlamFkingDunk on Jun 8 2022 01:38am

I don't play those games personally, but do they have good itemization like D2 and where players can freely trade? Cause if a game has that, any game will be "P2W if used by jsp".

However, take jsp out of the equation. Remember back in the days before eBay SOJs and crap, we'd sit in USWEST Trading chat channel all day spamming. That makes the game inherently not P2W, as it was only a B2P game. But the outside influence of JSP can make the game seem P2W, but that's only relative/local to that user and their game experience.

Maybe that's where the confusion is

This post was edited by ChocolateCoveredGummyBears on Jun 8 2022 01:46am

The difference is we are having this conversation on d2jsp right now in 2022.

If people were complaining about p2w but then didn't use jsp to buy and sell items for money then it would be a different story.

Do you see the irony here?

I'll just define what makes a game P2W for me

If you can use real money to buy ingame power then it is pay to win. This is a scale meaning some games are more P2W than others. However still classified as P2W.

This is not a simple black/white issue, games like Diablo immortal and lost ark take P2W to the extreme.

One thing you can't do tho is say Diablo immortal is pay to win because you can buy gear and power but Diablo 2 isn't pay to win when you can buy gear and power.

Using pvp as an example is the worst thought out example possible, considering Diablo immortal has pvp like I mentioned earlier, and a whale can lose to a more skilled team or player.

Just to edit the difference between Diablo 2 and counter strike. One has gear which holds power and the other game everyone has the same stats and weapons regardless of the rank or money spent.

This post was edited by AlphaofAlphas on Jun 8 2022 02:02am

and in the end, it all comes down to how you define 'pay to win'

your definition seems pointless because then every single game on earth is pay to win in some way

lololol one has a black market and one puts a big flashy light saying pay me to get more shit after killing a boss in the game ......... so one you go out of your way to pay2win the other preys on you

Like I said not everything is black and white. One is far more extreme and disgusting but at the end of the day the result is the same.

You cant p2w on games like valorant or counter strike regardless of a website.

And d2jsp is hardly black market, pretty much every diablo player at this point uses or has used jsp

This post was edited by AlphaofAlphas on Jun 8 2022 07:54am

The result is not the same,with diablo 2 the gameplay itself is not built around paying to win but making the game repayable and how to make it entertaining and fun,with diablo immortal the game was built to incentives to pay more money to skip purposely repetitive and very boring content.

The main point from me is this game was made just like tons mobile games when we were told they wanted to make diablo fans happy,they lied and bullshitted us. They are making this game to make the most money possible. As a business nothing is wrong with that,but as a fan of what blizzard use to make vs what they make now it's came as a disappointment because starcraft 3 and warcraft 4 will never happen because they won't make 100× their investment only 3 or 4x. They don't care about gamers they care about money,and they should stop pretending like they care about gamers.

I don't disagree with anything your saying, I actually 100% agree.

But the issue isn't as simple as this game sucks because it's p2w, p2w isn't necessarily a bad thing as I described with how diablo 2 can be seen as p2w.

It's more of the predatory tactics that these company's now do like shoving microtransactions in ur face every second and loot boxes etc.
That's the shit ruining the gaming industry.

This post was edited by AlphaofAlphas on Jun 8 2022 10:05am