I know better than anyone, the bigger your pockets, the better you are in D2. Why doesn't that still apply than? The more FG, the heftier your inventory can be. The guy that dropped 30k on his 3\20\20 inventory vs the guy who rocking his 1\15\17s? I mean why didn't anyone cry than? It's the same thing. Do not lecture me about how FG isn't the same thing as money. EVERYTHING has a value. Go to Ebay right now. Look up "d2jsp fg". There are people right this second selling fg for cash. Everything has a value. They chose to drop fg into beefing their character instead of liquidating it into actual money. Just because they chose to buy gear and not sell it (illegally) doesn't mean it doesn't boil down to the same thing.

Every game is going to be "p2w" if you really look at it. The only games that are not "p2w" are console games from the old days. Super Smash Bros. Perfect Dark. on N64. THOSE were skill based. Street Fighter.

This is a new era where the creators want to make money off their games. Imagine you designed an app game. You put it out there for free to download. How much time did you put into it? Do you do your work for free? I sure hope not.

EVERY game I can think of these days has a "pay to win" factor. Just because you choose to refuse it, doesn't mean it isn't true.

I expect you to turn a blind eye at the points I'm making, and that's fine. But the major issue people have with the game is there no way to exploit the game as a cash cow and that bent alot of people. Notice about 90% of the people who "hate" the game have a hefty 200k+ fg. Ever wonder where they got that from? Dude that can convert out to about 50 grand if they knew how to rwt it out. Don't jump on the bandwagon because 3 people are mad about the game for their personal reason.

Man. WTF

Diablo 2 is not P2W. I'm not talking about a "pay to win factor". You're talking about people using third party services as an advantage to become stronger in a game. That's not the same as games offering P2W options in their own in-game shop!

And yes you are right those games are skilled based too

This post was edited by ChocolateCoveredGummyBears on Jul 10 2022 06:44pm

With your 157fg. Build a dueler with that + whatever you find.
I'll go drop 22k on a build for D2.

How's that gonna turn out? Enlighten me. Tell me you can beat a 20k fg build with 150fg. Tell me that isn't "paying to win". I need help understanding how that isn't the same thing, especially if FG holds a USD value. I mean, what if I went to a pay site? Bought it directly with cash? What if I sold my FG for USD on ebay, THAN bought gear for cash? Doing it one way or another, does it change the fact?

Please don't ignore what I'm saying.

This post was edited by Soul Snatcha on Jul 10 2022 06:47pm

I get what you're saying. However, D2 doesn't offer any P2W features built in-game. I draw the line there and that's how I differentiate P2W. If a player uses a third party service, that's on them, we cannot blame the game for it.

Regarding your argument, a free player can just grind and sell items for other FG and use that FG advantageously to "help compete with the guy who has 22k FG". Not really "paying to win" at that point. That's one of greatest things about FG, it has its negatives like in your example, but also can act as an equilibrium.

This post was edited by ChocolateCoveredGummyBears on Jul 10 2022 07:24pm

Just because the game isnt directly tied to paying to gain an advantage doesnt seperate the fact it can still fall under the same category. You also cant blame the game for the people who CHOOSE to pay for it. You cant be selective of what you use to support your argument if you're going to ignore everything else that counters it. It makes you look ridiculous.
I blame the people who are creating videos to ONLY support their ideas and overturn ANY thing that can counter it. Just like a girlfriend arguing with you when all she is doing is yelling over you when it's your turn to talk. It doesnt discredit the whole structure making them right and you wrong.

Look. You can play the game or not. Like it or lump it. In the end, the same choice you're making to not play the game, is the same choice someone else is making, paying for it. Sitting here bashing and being a complete asshole to people who are playing it really goes to show how unhappy you are as a person. Yall have GOT to get over it. The sooner you do, the sooner you'll find something better to do with yourself than being a toxic troll.

Nothing I say on these forums is defending the point you can pay for the game to be better. I'm simply saying the game is 100% playable without paying anything for it. You guys coming here so upset that someone else is happy is absolutely disgusting and just looks bad on you. Fix yourself.

LOL
"It is not built in."

Man you must be super square. Like step outside the box and realize it was ALWAYS built into the game. Even the hardware or internet connection you pay for are part of the giant p2w scam of modern gaming.

Diablo 2 doesn't have an in-game cash shop that lets you buy power for your character. Hence, it's not P2W. How hard is that to understand?

the difference is D2 has items like Grief and common uniques that are arguably better in slot items than expensive rare items that can sell for loads of real money undermining the whole pay to win thing. having better gear than your opponent does not at all mean you have an unfair advantage in pvp
compared to Diablo immortal that literally wont let you progress unless you keep buying crap
i can see how both can be labeled "P2w" but there is a huge difference

Guess what

You can spend 22k on a dueler and I will spend 1/4 as much and 5-0 you LOL

That's why d2 isn't pay to win

You are basically the guy who has 100s of medals for trying from school. Just participate for the fun of it. No matter if you win or not xD. I've always wondered how people like you survive in this world.
"Ohh look at me I'm a goofy 40-year-old weirdo who plays the game for FUUUUN! Who cares who wins in a PvP game, we are here to have FUUUUN!"