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Aug 23 2021 04:24pm
Quote (Sawn @ Aug 23 2021 06:22pm)
yes i dont mind watching a good gm duel , but just saying ..... this would let people know that d2r is not a pvp game , strictly pvm.


I regret to inform you I was being heavily facetious.
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Aug 23 2021 04:25pm
Quote (Sawn @ Aug 23 2021 05:22pm)
yes i dont mind watching a good gm duel , but just saying ..... this would let people know that d2r is not a pvp game , strictly pvm.


Plz d2 gods dont turn this into a d3
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Aug 23 2021 04:30pm
Quote (zShada @ Aug 24 2021 10:25am)
Plz d2 gods dont turn this into a d3


i hope and pray they dont , if thats what there thinking then why dont they just keep that over at that d3?? is this game not for those HCC/old school players??? why would you take a game and make things with out what they already had . i use to pvm a hell of a lot , i got sick of getting hostiled during games , then i actually took the time to learn what pvp was , and now i dont care if i get hostiled , either adapt to what was already there or strickly only play private games . D2R will be named as - diablo 2 lod - PVM mode.

This post was edited by Sawn on Aug 23 2021 04:32pm
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Aug 23 2021 04:46pm
Quote (Goomshill @ Aug 23 2021 04:55pm)
In order to escape a stunlock without WSG, your action frame on the cast + hit recovery frames, must be equal to or less than the FPA of what is stunning you
a 102 / 174% fcr assassin can cast mind blast at 10 / 9 FPA
that means you need to have action frame + FHR <= 10/9 FPA to escape them

to give an example, a 125% fcr necro has action frame 5, and with 39/56/86/152% fhr he has 8/7/6/5 frame hit recovery. Only a 125% fcr / 152% fhr necro can cast under a 102% sin just holding down mind blast, and if she goes up to 174% fcr he still can't cast.
another example is a 105% fcr sorceress, who has action frame 5, and no matter how much % fhr she stacks its impossible to cast because even 142% fhr has 6 frame hit recovery, and even if she somehow went 200% fcr / 142% fhr again it would only inch out a 102% sin, not a 174% sin.
and druids/zons have such late action frames they have no chance at all

and all of this ignores how traps can hit you every 5 frames on top of mind blast, and shadow master hits at irregular pace between that, and if she gets on top of you with whirlwind while stunned you can't even move at all.
if you're just getting slammed by mind blast alone every 10 frames, then even if you can't get a cast off, you can at least fidget a bit between knockbacks if you spend ~7 out of every 10 frames stunned



Thank you for the math behind it :)

Would balancing of the action frames between all characters be a viable option? (Similar FPA at different breakpoints for all characters but achievable)
Or what repercussions would that have?

The various other gameplay suggestions I am seeing to completely change the gameplay is unfortunate. If some of what I am seeing is implemented, this game will slowly become a remake and not a remaster.
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Aug 23 2021 05:13pm
Quote (Roses @ Aug 23 2021 05:46pm)
Thank you for the math behind it :)

Would balancing of the action frames between all characters be a viable option? (Similar FPA at different breakpoints for all characters but achievable)
Or what repercussions would that have?

The various other gameplay suggestions I am seeing to completely change the gameplay is unfortunate. If some of what I am seeing is implemented, this game will slowly become a remake and not a remaster.


even if you tried to change the numbers around- which would have huge impacts in other aspects of PvP and change the balance of the metagame- you'd still not really fix the problem, because the stun debuff makes it so every damage puts you into hit recovery while stunned. And a trapper can hit you with not just mind blast every 9-10 frames, but also traps that shoot constantly and can hit every 5 frames, and shadow master, and whirlwind, and blade shield, and so on. Its not like you can give people 2 frame FHR and 2 frame action points to reliably escape FHR, they'd be insanely fast at normal PvP. Holding namelock mind blast is just a reliable method that people can't escape by fidgeting away like they can against traps.
but moreso than that, there's aspects like dodge/evade/avoid on zons, and blocking animations, and the whole multilayered animation interrupting system of D2. When a zon gets hit, she can be thrown into a block animation, or a dodge animation, or a hit recovery animation. its a lot of different ways to interrupt her movement/attacks/casts, and she can only speed them up in limited ways, each with different breakpoints, each requiring different gear. But when she WSGs to move, cast and attack, she can fairly reliably get her actions off free. Back in 1.09, blocklock was absolutely busted because it didn't have the 11 frame grace timer where you can block without an animation like it does now, and just having 75% block meant getting hit by rapid attacks- like piercing guided arrows- would leave you indefinitely stunned. Even in PvM it was ruinous. That still exists for FHR and D/A/E, but there are less ways to get thrown into those.
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Aug 23 2021 05:32pm
People saying to just use more FHR really don't understand how swirls and damage work together lol
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Aug 23 2021 05:34pm
yet, there will be duel games up 24/7
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Aug 23 2021 05:43pm
Quote (Goomshill @ Aug 23 2021 06:13pm)
even if you tried to change the numbers around- which would have huge impacts in other aspects of PvP and change the balance of the metagame- you'd still not really fix the problem, because the stun debuff makes it so every damage puts you into hit recovery while stunned. And a trapper can hit you with not just mind blast every 9-10 frames, but also traps that shoot constantly and can hit every 5 frames, and shadow master, and whirlwind, and blade shield, and so on. Its not like you can give people 2 frame FHR and 2 frame action points to reliably escape FHR, they'd be insanely fast at normal PvP. Holding namelock mind blast is just a reliable method that people can't escape by fidgeting away like they can against traps.
but moreso than that, there's aspects like dodge/evade/avoid on zons, and blocking animations, and the whole multilayered animation interrupting system of D2. When a zon gets hit, she can be thrown into a block animation, or a dodge animation, or a hit recovery animation. its a lot of different ways to interrupt her movement/attacks/casts, and she can only speed them up in limited ways, each with different breakpoints, each requiring different gear. But when she WSGs to move, cast and attack, she can fairly reliably get her actions off free. Back in 1.09, blocklock was absolutely busted because it didn't have the 11 frame grace timer where you can block without an animation like it does now, and just having 75% block meant getting hit by rapid attacks- like piercing guided arrows- would leave you indefinitely stunned. Even in PvM it was ruinous. That still exists for FHR and D/A/E, but there are less ways to get thrown into those.



Thank you for the constructive answers for my understanding.
Awesome detail and easy to follow ^_^
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Aug 23 2021 05:43pm
Quote (freeuse @ 23 Aug 2021 19:34)
yet, there will be duel games up 24/7

And? There will also be "drop me uniques plz" games up 24/7 too
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Aug 23 2021 05:44pm
Quote (Chaseduo @ Aug 23 2021 04:43pm)
And? There will also be "drop me uniques plz" games up 24/7 too


Thats because everyone wants handouts on d2.. they don't understand the game was intended to be grindy for late game gear.
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