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Aug 23 2021 10:21am
Quote (TSBoyer @ Aug 23 2021 05:31pm)
This was in response to a discussion about making new GM rulesets to accommodate a no WSG D2.
Posting here because it's good discussion:


No offence but you seems to don't get how pvp rulez you are using now were made.
I respect you want to play as you are used to but dont be so dramatic , it wont be hard to do gm rulez.
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Aug 23 2021 10:27am
Why?

If you want desynch and wsg play the og d2. Who gives a fuck about graphics at pvp anyway? Why all this crying
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Aug 23 2021 10:33am
Quote (Vismajor @ Aug 23 2021 05:27pm)
Why?

If you want desynch and wsg play the og d2. Who gives a fuck about graphics at pvp anyway? Why all this crying


That's what alot of us will be doing, d2r will be a pvm game primarily
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Aug 23 2021 10:41am
Quote (heron79 @ 23 Aug 2021 14:58)
We dont miss u!


Is your "friend" right now with us?

Not only clueless, but out of touch troll.

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Aug 23 2021 10:48am
Quote (Piwah @ Aug 23 2021 06:33pm)
That's what alot of us will be doing, d2r will be a pvm game primarily




Don't insult the future, play perhaps they will change it on release or future patch.
D2r will bring fresh blood something pvp scene need more than wsg.
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Aug 23 2021 10:57am
Quote (alzheimertib2 @ Aug 23 2021 05:48pm)
Don't insult the future, play perhaps they will change it on release or future patch.
D2r will bring fresh blood something pvp scene need more than wsg.


I'll re buy the game if they fix alot of the problems
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Aug 23 2021 11:06am
Quote (Azn Masta @ 23 Aug 2021 17:56)
GhOsT-Koda and I did some light testing on this and wanted to share the results with you all. We have not had a chance to do actual duels yet as Koda's character were still being leveled.

The classes that we tested on were: 99fhr Druid and 86fhr Sorc (worse FHR in game and also the classes) against 102FCR Assassin.

Results:
It is "possible" to get out of mb spam and a few traps by simply walking down and/or teleing away, however you have to do it before getting hard stun locked (i.e. 3+ traps + mb + fb/ww). When you add in the extra layer of hit checks, then its pretty much all over without wsg to get you out. I believe that a necro can still "win" against as 102fcr trapper by playing extremely, extremely defensively, but anyone can l8z ibs/teeth spam and win so this would not be a good way to test. With whirlwind, it will definitely will make things tougher for sure. Ghosts already beat necros even with WSG prevalent, so there is no point in testing without.

We did not test with 174fcr yet, but I'd imagine that it will be significantly harder (especially with fireblast).

Conclusion:
If Blizzard does not fix WSG, tier 1 assassin players will dominate the PVP scene.


I don't think they should fix the WSG. All they need to do is apply -50% decrease in stun duration in PvP for all the skills that apply Stuns. WSG on it's own has a lot of negative sides, I do not get the point why bringing all the negative sides back in just because of a possible ruling of chain stun trappers. Just adjust their skills to a point where you would need crazy FCR breakpoint to actually be able to stun lock someone for eternity.

This post was edited by bobsyns on Aug 23 2021 11:06am
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Aug 23 2021 11:07am
Losing the desync on WSG would lead to a huge, and bad, change in the PvP meta balance, making some gimmick characters simply unplayable (wsg geddon druid), nerfing some already terrible builds (glass bowazons), and buffing characters who can get thrown off badly by sync (pallies in general), while leaving the most obnoxious forms of desync unchanged (charge, whirlwind). Nerfing weak builds, buffing strong ones, bad overall.

But losing the animation canceling on WSG just ends the pvp meta in any real form. Dueling games won't really be playable as long as mind blast exists and you can't just start shuffling around skill effects to compensate or come up with a replacement for WSG without warping the D2 metagame wildly- almost certainly for the worse- which is the opposite of what D2r is supposed to be

Quote (bobsyns @ Aug 23 2021 12:06pm)
I don't think they should fix the WSG. All they need to do is apply -50% decrease in stun duration in PvP for all the skills that apply Stuns. WSG on it's own has a lot of negative sides, I do not get the point why bringing all the negative sides back in just because of a possible ruling of chain stun trappers. Just adjust their skills to a point where you would need crazy FCR breakpoint to actually be able to stun lock someone for eternity.


mind blast could have 0.1 second duration instead of 10 second duration and it would still permastun someone by holding it down
what you're suggesting makes no sense in how stun works in D2. Stun length on its own is not particularly impactful, because it doesn't actually stun, it simply lowers the FHR threshold to any damage dealt, including the attack with the stun effect (shockwave, smite, mind blast, warcry all alike), and it applies to the attack that dealt it, so even with no duration at all any skill that can stun your opponent can permastun them by spamming it.

This post was edited by Goomshill on Aug 23 2021 11:09am
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Aug 23 2021 11:13am
Quote (Goomshill @ 23 Aug 2021 20:07)
Losing the desync on WSG would lead to a huge, and bad, change in the PvP meta balance, making some gimmick characters simply unplayable (wsg geddon druid), nerfing some already terrible builds (glass bowazons), and buffing characters who can get thrown off badly by sync (pallies in general), while leaving the most obnoxious forms of desync unchanged (charge, whirlwind). Nerfing weak builds, buffing strong ones, bad overall.

But losing the animation canceling on WSG just ends the pvp meta in any real form. Dueling games won't really be playable as long as mind blast exists and you can't just start shuffling around skill effects to compensate or come up with a replacement for WSG without warping the D2 metagame wildly- almost certainly for the worse- which is the opposite of what D2r is supposed to be



mind blast could have 0.1 second duration instead of 10 second duration and it would still permastun someone by holding it down
what you're suggesting makes no sense in how stun works in D2. Stun length on its own is not particularly impactful, because it doesn't actually stun, it simply lowers the FHR threshold to any damage dealt, including the attack with the stun effect (shockwave, smite, mind blast, warcry all alike), and it applies to the attack that dealt it, so even with no duration at all any skill that can stun your opponent can permastun them by spamming it.


In that case you can simply apply 0.10-0.15 seconds cooldown on Mind blast? Since i can already see that the only real concern for people is actually Mind blast correct?
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Aug 23 2021 11:14am
Quote (Piwah @ Aug 23 2021 06:57pm)
I'll re buy the game if they fix alot of the problems


i will ask you a question but it's for all of you guys.
did you start having fun on pvp when you did learn wsg,str bug etc ?
i had fun even when i didnt know shit. pvp was already fun.
Fun came far before i knew how to duel.
i will enjoy public pvp without hack , i will rather have wsg vs trapper but i will have fun anyway.

mode rant on: TMC fuck you, if you will play the fucking D2R , you have to change name or be far better than me because your hack killed my fun on old d2 , i will make you pay for it.

tdlr : i respect you guys to play the game as you do know, but iam sure you all had a lot of fun even before knowing what wsg was.

This post was edited by alzheimertib2 on Aug 23 2021 11:16am
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