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Aug 18 2021 04:17am
Quote (Ognadibik @ Aug 18 2021 03:39am)
I'll whoop your ass with nec no problem


You couldn't fight your way out of a wet paper bag let alone win a 1v1 vs one of the greatest pvpist this game has ever seen
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Aug 18 2021 05:08am
Having no WSG puts hard caps at if you can escape MB lock. It becomes a matter of it simply being impossible to cast under namelock MB if your action frame + fhr frames is longer than the interval between mind blasts. At that point, the only things that can escape mb lock are either the sin lagging and dropping frames, or you being pushed out of range of mb by the knockback / using the few free frames to walk out
This is besides the traps/sm hitting at irregular intervals and adding in stuns on top of that, which can be more frequent damage (5 fpa for wof tops), but can easily be less frequent and leave bigger openings to get off a cast, so namelock MB is still the surest lock interval there is.

To put some numbers to it, a 102/174 sin casts at 10/9 fpa. A necro with 75/125 fcr has an action frame of 6/5. And a necro with 26/39/56/86/152 fhr has a hit recovery animation of 9/8/7/6/5 frames
even with 125 fcr / 152 fhr, it takes you 10 frames to cast a spell out of hit recovery, and a 174 sin can put you into hit recovery every 9 frames by just holding down mind blast
in real duels, this is a completely shit matchup because besides the ability to boxcast spears out wsg while zooming towards the sin like a bowazon, if a sin was actually trying to whittle down a necro with mb alone he can just wsg to cast bone armor and completely negate it indefinitely. But without wsg, it becomes simply impossible to cast anything.

a sin who fiddles around with setting up traps can easily leave openings for a necro to get off a cast or fidget his way out of a lock. If she's keeping him in hit recovery for 6 out of every 9 frames, he can still effectively run around at 1/3 of his normal speed + knockback pushing him, so its not like its totally indefinite. But even if a necro eventually breaks free, the sin has every easy opening to reset the lock, even as he's fidgeting out, even if it means a slight chance of an opening. Its 99% in her favor.
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Aug 18 2021 05:21am
and you can see these same kinds of action frame breakpoints easily with the 11 frame blocklock grace timer
a 105% fcr sorc with a 15% faster block rate shield can be blocklocked indefinitely, just teleport into monsters and watch her struggle to teleport out (5 action frame + 7 block rate = 12 frames)
but a 105% fcr sorc with 27% faster block rate can always teleport out, she'll get interrupted and reset her teleport animation but then complete it on the next cast (5 action frame + 6 block rate = 11 frames)

you can always cast out of a 9/10 fpa stun if you've got a 9/10 frame fhr + action frame, but you can never cast out of it if you've got a 10/11 frame fhr+action frame.
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Aug 18 2021 05:36am
Cant believe people arent getting this lol if you have ever pvp'd on a higher level its blatantly obvious the game is much more interesting with wsg

Yea the meta will evolve but it will evolve into a shit l8z fest

Team duels will be a joke, yes maybe 1v1 you can time a lucky tele right and escape fhr but if you have multiple people on you there is literally no chance to escape

Yes most of us have pvp'd without wsg before but when they broke wsg for a month or w/e a couple years ago it was like going back to the stone ages. A lot of people didnt even play until they fixed it

Wsg adds so much depth to playstyles and even as a sin it's fun to duel against, challenging yet satisfying because you can still keep someone hard fhrd despite wsg if your timing and trap placement is good
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Aug 18 2021 06:14am
Quote (StoneJackBaller @ 18 Aug 2021 12:17)
You couldn't fight your way out of a wet paper bag let alone win a 1v1 vs one of the greatest pvpist this game has ever seen


Hes nothing special
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Aug 18 2021 06:16am
Quote (urkel182 @ 18 Aug 2021 13:36)
Cant believe people arent getting this lol if you have ever pvp'd on a higher level its blatantly obvious the game is much more interesting with wsg

Yea the meta will evolve but it will evolve into a shit l8z fest

Team duels will be a joke, yes maybe 1v1 you can time a lucky tele right and escape fhr but if you have multiple people on you there is literally no chance to escape

Yes most of us have pvp'd without wsg before but when they broke wsg for a month or w/e a couple years ago it was like going back to the stone ages. A lot of people didnt even play until they fixed it

Wsg adds so much depth to playstyles and even as a sin it's fun to duel against, challenging yet satisfying because you can still keep someone hard fhrd despite wsg if your timing and trap placement is good


It was changed back within 2 days wtf are you even talking about :D
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Aug 18 2021 06:46am
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Aug 18 2021 07:51am
Quote (Goomshill @ Aug 18 2021 06:08am)
Having no WSG puts hard caps at if you can escape MB lock. It becomes a matter of it simply being impossible to cast under namelock MB if your action frame + fhr frames is longer than the interval between mind blasts. At that point, the only things that can escape mb lock are either the sin lagging and dropping frames, or you being pushed out of range of mb by the knockback / using the few free frames to walk out
This is besides the traps/sm hitting at irregular intervals and adding in stuns on top of that, which can be more frequent damage (5 fpa for wof tops), but can easily be less frequent and leave bigger openings to get off a cast, so namelock MB is still the surest lock interval there is.

To put some numbers to it, a 102/174 sin casts at 10/9 fpa. A necro with 75/125 fcr has an action frame of 6/5. And a necro with 26/39/56/86/152 fhr has a hit recovery animation of 9/8/7/6/5 frames
even with 125 fcr / 152 fhr, it takes you 10 frames to cast a spell out of hit recovery, and a 174 sin can put you into hit recovery every 9 frames by just holding down mind blast
in real duels, this is a completely shit matchup because besides the ability to boxcast spears out wsg while zooming towards the sin like a bowazon, if a sin was actually trying to whittle down a necro with mb alone he can just wsg to cast bone armor and completely negate it indefinitely. But without wsg, it becomes simply impossible to cast anything.

a sin who fiddles around with setting up traps can easily leave openings for a necro to get off a cast or fidget his way out of a lock. If she's keeping him in hit recovery for 6 out of every 9 frames, he can still effectively run around at 1/3 of his normal speed + knockback pushing him, so its not like its totally indefinite. But even if a necro eventually breaks free, the sin has every easy opening to reset the lock, even as he's fidgeting out, even if it means a slight chance of an opening. Its 99% in her favor.


not everything translates in real life the same as it appears on paper

a good lesson for you
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Aug 18 2021 07:56am
Quote (Gilgameshed @ Aug 18 2021 08:51am)
not everything translates in real life the same as it appears on paper

a good lesson for you


go into the game, have someone hold mind blast on a necro and the necro hold down spear and watch it happen exactly like I said
if he has the fhr/fcr, he can always get a spear out of every ~2 casts. If he doesn't have the fhr/fcr, he can never spear at all. Its that simple, unless the sin is playing on a bulgarian dialup modem
you can see it easily in single player with blocklock

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Aug 18 2021 08:03am
Quote (Gilgameshed @ Aug 17 2021 11:06pm)
Yea, I have no issues with wsg as an animation cancel, and I do agree with your points that it will encourage more defensive play vs sins, but once ppl adapt it really won't be all that much different. A lot of people here are flipping their shit way too hard, and it makes me wonder if people who played and quit before wsg became prominent might actually have the upper hand in d2r, simply from being used to dueling without it. frw and fhr is still the way out. I honestly haven't changed my builds at all much, outside of now speccing for torch and anyas.


gunitdruid aint coming back
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