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#241
Jun 4 2026 05:58am
Quote (Goomshill @ Jun 2 2026 08:35pm)
To follow up on this
I tested and found bone break definitely works to apply sunder to the bound demon when equipped at the start of a game, clear difference in damage dealt, but I'm not sure its the expected values

To test, I put a fairly low level (14 bind demon, ~30 mastery) bound holy freeze + cursed winged nightmare from lower kurast as my test case
went into P8 arcane sanctuary and had it proc amp off the aura on some monsters to amp the ghosts, and then deathmark the ghosts to hit them one by one.
In test case one, my inventory is just torch+anni when I join the game, go straight to arcane
In test case two, my inventory is torch+anni+bone break, then I put bone break into my stash before going to arcane

in case one, ghosts took about 40% of their HP per hit and died in 3 hits every time, didn't see any moncrits so it was a reliable 3 hit kill for about 40%
in case two, ghosts took about 80-90% of their HP per hit and died in 2 hits every time, didn't see OHKO crits
repeated it a bunch and got those results over and over
...this doesn't make much sense though

P8 wraiths should have 100% DR and 16-22k HP
Amp should bring them to 80% DR, and with bone break it should bring them to -5%
the expected damage is ~5x the effect vs immunes, instead it looks like ~2x the effect

I think we might even want to test how bone break + amp actually works. Because it sure looks like blizzard intended to make amp damage apply 100% effectiveness against immunes with bone break, but instead made it apply "+100%" effectiveness, hence 20->40% effectiveness so its taking 100% dr sundered monsters from 95% to 55% instead of 80% or -5%.
That's what it sure looks like
well, I guess that's still kinda worth using a bone break on bind demon if its doubling its damage vs immunes but its not like your demon will fight many immunes and its -1 skiller vs everything else

https://i.imgur.com/8FyjfEI.mp4


Not sure at all what's going on here with bone break, but I learned recently that cursed amp always works at 100% effectiveness vs immunes, regardless of sunder or not. I confirmed this by finding a stone skin game, and having bound demon proc amp on wraith which should have 150% resist (without bone break at any point).

The text underneath no longer shows phys immune. I sanity checked with another character using amp from brand bow, and this did not break the immunity.
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#242
Jun 4 2026 09:02am
Quote (daanno2 @ Jun 4 2026 06:58am)
Not sure at all what's going on here with bone break, but I learned recently that cursed amp always works at 100% effectiveness vs immunes, regardless of sunder or not. I confirmed this by finding a stone skin game, and having bound demon proc amp on wraith which should have 150% resist (without bone break at any point).

The text underneath no longer shows phys immune. I sanity checked with another character using amp from brand bow, and this did not break the immunity.


Hmm I think its possible wraiths with stone skin stay at 100% dr. The way the wiki phrases it is

>. If a monster already has two (or more) inherent immunities, it can acquire no more from modifiers; if it has less than two inherent immunities, then it is restricted to a maximum of two. Once two inherent and/or acquired immunities have been applied, any % resistance bonuses that would result in further immunities or boost the existing ones are not applied.

Wraiths dont have 2 immunities, but its possible stone skin is still not boosting their dr above 100% anyway.
I think it needs more testing, because theres no clear answer. The bone break buffed lancer was clearly doing about 2x damage to the wraiths under amp, so its having some kind of interaction but that means its either making amp from 20% into 40%, or 100% into 200%- but it cant be 20% into 100% as the game supposes, and the 5% sunder shouldnt make any such difference

We know for sure that amp on bound demons has no penalty even if they are natively physical immune. The example you can test more easily is act 5 urdars with stone skin. Or dark lords. They have 75% dr, so stone skin gives them 125% dr and immune. If amp worked as intended it would set them to 105%, still immune. The bound stone skin urdar clearly becomes very vulnerable, not immune, indicating its set to 25%. So either bound demons get no amp reduction, or maybe like you say, no monsters do at all. But somehow bone break still boosts it? Unless blizzard at some point just capped monster dr at 100 and stone skin urdars are set to 100, and amp takes them to 80. The difference would be pretty obvious from damage output being big or small

This post was edited by Goomshill on Jun 4 2026 09:04am
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#243
Jun 4 2026 09:09am
Quote (Goomshill @ Jun 4 2026 11:02am)
Hmm I think its possible wraiths with stone skin stay at 100% dr. The way the wiki phrases it is



> Wraiths dont have 2 immunities, but its possible stone skin is still not boosting their dr above 100% anyway.
like I mentioned, "I sanity checked with another character using amp from brand bow, and this did not break the immunity." if it were 100% dr, any source of dr would break it.

> But somehow bone break still boosts it? Unless blizzard at some point just capped monster dr at 100 and stone skin urdars are set to 100, and amp takes them to 80. The difference would be pretty obvious from damage output being big or small


yea i also tested and it seems to do about double dmg. no idea why
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#244
Jun 4 2026 10:33am
Anyone testing using 2 Defillers? I'm using it with fana bound demon and their cast the skill really fast even using bb on their skill just evaporate a pack of mobs even more if you do sigil death

It feels faster then with tainted for general gameplay
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#245
Jun 4 2026 10:43am
Quote (m4rin1 @ Jun 4 2026 11:33am)
Anyone testing using 2 Defillers? I'm using it with fana bound demon and their cast the skill really fast even using bb on their skill just evaporate a pack of mobs even more if you do sigil death

It feels faster then with tainted for general gameplay


Theres a pretty good video for comparison of clear speed here:

https://youtu.be/plqQVJaKdFY

If you have any footage of how fast a demon clear with a single target melee attack compared to the 2x 36k aoe ranged fireballs from tainted

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#246
Jun 4 2026 11:46am
Quote (Goomshill @ Jun 4 2026 01:43pm)
Theres a pretty good video for comparison of clear speed here:

https://youtu.be/plqQVJaKdFY

If you have any footage of how fast a demon clear with a single target melee attack compared to the 2x 36k aoe ranged fireballs from tainted


I do not have anything record but I'm not saying bind alone is superior its about the defiller with 2 they cast pretty much every teleport the skill that the melle attack shut down a pack or even bb damage with defiller is greatly increased again.. maybe is just my impression that's why I asked if anyone else were running this setup

I tried the 1 point blood oath version and in the end I felt that the tainted were not good enought for a hole game clear I find myself in some areas with fire imune that the kill speed was way slower that I needed to summon defiller.. but then again when I was back to another non imune area I would need to precast tainted again..

I even tested 1 tainted with 1 defiller was the worst case was bad at both thing lol

i was back in the full blood oath 1 tainted for bosses ( baal and diablo mostly)

maybe if i can run1 point blood oath and have a stronger tainted for bosses becouse there the difference is huge

This post was edited by m4rin1 on Jun 4 2026 11:50am
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#247
Jun 5 2026 07:31am
Quote (daanno2 @ Jun 4 2026 06:58am)
Not sure at all what's going on here with bone break, but I learned recently that cursed amp always works at 100% effectiveness vs immunes, regardless of sunder or not. I confirmed this by finding a stone skin game, and having bound demon proc amp on wraith which should have 150% resist (without bone break at any point).

The text underneath no longer shows phys immune. I sanity checked with another character using amp from brand bow, and this did not break the immunity.


I tested this with the stone skin vampire lords in act 5 and can confirm amp made them non-immune, should 75 -> 125 -> 105 dr
Also tested on a stone skin unique to make sure its not just a 'stone skin tz affix not setting flag', didn't bother to find a 75 dr mob but a 66 dr frenzylord. Should be 96% dr after amp, instead he lost about 1/2 his max hp in p8 to a single hit from not fully powered demon with amp (without sunder), 4% applied should be so low it shouldn't have been anywhere close.

So as best as I can guess, amp is giving immunes -100 dr, and amp + sunder is giving immunes -200 dr, or something ridiculous like that. I really don't know what's going on with sunder here, because it plainly increased the damage output vs immunes with amp on them
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#248
Jun 5 2026 09:52am
Taintlock is the best build this season.

I don't think using Blood Boil is necessary or worthwhile.

Don't sleep on the Flesh Spawner as your bound demon.

Thanks for the great plan Goomshill!

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#249
Jun 5 2026 11:27am
Hi i have one question. Should i focus on the fire side of the build and let the demon take care the physical damage (1 point engorge and max bind demon)?
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#250
Jun 5 2026 12:38pm
Quote (javavivi @ Jun 5 2026 12:27pm)
Hi i have one question. Should i focus on the fire side of the build and let the demon take care the physical damage (1 point engorge and max bind demon)?


The two main archetypes we've seen so far are
{20 engorge, 20 bind demon, 1 blood oath, bone break + protector's stone}
vs
{20 engorge, 20 blood oath, 1 bind demon, flame rift + defender's fire}

The former build has about 20% less damage vs immunes and 60% less vs non-immunes with blood boil, but has 60% higher bind demon damage, and a higher HP demon despite being 1 point blood oath by using a unique lancer, and frees up 1 socket for MF or mostly offsetting the -% dr on bone break with a ber.
Otherwise the gear / skills / etc on the builds would be identical: 20 summon tainted, 20 blood boil, 20 demonic mastery, 1 hex siphon, 1 sigil lethargy. With ideal runtime gear of obsession in +3 base, shako, +2/20 crafted ammy, ars baalos, enigma, magefist, 2x soj, arach, resist boots. And max prebuff gear of mang songs, +3 circlet, +3 ammy, +5-6 tome(s), enigma, magefist, 2x soj, arach, wraithstep. And swapping in extra skillers, using bone break for joining game, using flame rift for summoning tainted, either way.

You shouldn't be going 1 point engorge either way. You mostly want blood boil against immunes, and the majority of its damage comes from the physical side + amp damage.
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