Sorry, I don't usually mess around with sins but I thought the go to was a Fury off hand if you didn't have a good fools claw, and that with WW it was hitting with the main hand only every 4 frames and then both on frame 8 and that since you are restarting your ww so often with a dance of death at each corner of the triangle it wasn't quite as important to have a very damaging weapon on the offhand and utility was more preferred, like we see with a beast for BvC.

Am I just an idiot? This is second hand info I picked up over the years, again, druid main here.

edit: sorry should clarify this thought process is more for a ghost and not a spider- we're assuming venom/ow is the main killer.

This post was edited by Arkontas on Nov 20 2021 08:22pm

chaos is just better than fury. Even if you hit more with your primary than your offhand, you still benefit more by getting more damage per hit on the offhand. Unlike a bvc where beast powerups up your mainhand's damage (including on zerk), sins don't have any real offhand option to beef up their mainhand. All fury does is give you mostly redundant open wounds and less direct damage. All those attack modifiers only apply to whichever weapon is being swung, unlike the +strength and fanat aura on beast.

hmm okay. that is true that its not powering up the mainhand. so i guess you're just mimicing a grief/grief setup on the sin instead and aiming for more consistency.

Like, I've obviously played trappers over the years, but they're not my main class. I'd still like to discuss it a bit more just so I can fill in some gaps since I DO want to play a Spider or Ghost myself now that they seem to basically be mandatory. This isn't me trying to say you're wrong.

I want to say there should be some merrit to the amount of AR even though itd doesnt work on a fury and that it would help with higher defense opponenets, but idk. getting 2 chaos is cheaper than a fury and I don't have D2L installed anymore to go play on ga or something and see for myself. vs something like a paladin or bva wouldn't it make more sense to try and bleed them out and aim for the AR on a fury as a swap in place of a godly fools?

well people use chaos/fury, its just that people are wrong. Doesn't take much to see chaos hits far harder and the extra OW on fury is mostly redundant. If you hit 1/2/3/4 times with both claws connecting, having 35/35 ow gives you a 58/82/92/97% chance to apply OW, while having 35/76 ow gives you an 84/96/100/100 chance to apply OW. Its common enough for whirlwind to land multiple hits unless someone is a high defense/max block target and you only clipped them briefly, or hit a bunch of summons on a druid. At any rate, even just 35/35 ow already rapidly approaches the point where more OW becomes redundant. And then I leave it to you to see that +344 magic and 131% ed winds up more damage than 33% ds

Just gonna put the ghost sin idea to bed right now as I was a little curious about it.

Even if you could use a broken claw to reproduce whatever is going on here, I’m pretty sure you’d lose your clawblock.

Granted I’ve never tried to see if clawblock works with one broken claw.. I just assume it wouldn’t.

Assuming I’ve been understanding the discussion correctly.

Yeah those are the probabilities i saw too. I gave up on the one that had 4 events with the 76 ow and used a calculator lol.

The only thing is we're assuming they all hit. There's also the 20% AR and considering things like a visionairy circlet and AR from other sources... Buuuut I'm pretty damn sure the what? 1500-1600 AR 90s get off a fools claw is going to blow it out of the water.

So I played around with it a bit and assumed a caster would have 1500-2500 defense, and yeah this claw is shit lol. It's like actually offering nothing, this is the build I slapped together to compare the AR: https://d2.maxroll.gg/d2planner/0v0106jj

It was like 20k AR vs 9k. Okay, that's a waste of a Jah rune. chaos was 8952 vs fury's 9264 like actually b a d.

Okay cool. One less thing to double check before I start making my own sin.

I think shadowdancers might be a bit better than gores for a ghost though, gives them a lot of AR tbh. idk guess it depends. It's their shadow masteries that is making flat AR so powerful.

anyways- this is really off topic so I'll stop. i can't see the mods getting angry about it it's not like we're discussing something bad- it's useful imo- but yeah.

So I only took a cursory read through this latest discussion, but are yall saying that chaos + fury is not the ideal setup for a ww sin? Is that implying that chaos + broken offhand is a decent choice? Or have I misread the ww sin convo?

the discussion was this

im not familiar with sins, randomly asked if fury was a good offhand since ghost and spiders are basically mandatory for pubs. my logic was since beast is pumping the main hands dmg and ww likes to hit with mainhand in pvp, that a utility offhand may be useful.

goom said no. reasoning that beast actually helps mainhand dmg.

goom looked into it deeper probabilities wise, it made fury's ow negligible. i confirmed it too- you can recreate the tests yourself with 2 events for chaos or 4 with chaos/fury in an online calc. obviously the probability isnt 100% he rounded it up.

i wondered if the ar on fury made a difference at least, posted my basic findings myself instead of being useless and asking everything lol.

it doesnt. either use a chaos off hand to mimic how two griefs work, or use a proper fools claw. the way ghost sins get their ar is claw mastery which is giving large percentage AR increases.

the fury is offering higher ow with a "newbtrap" baked into it with an ignores defense which has never worked on players, and a 20% AR increase which is a drop in the bucket compared to flat AR off fools.

oo sick, ty.

the short version is, chaos + chaos is the best affordable setup. Chaos + fools rare claw is better if you can find a 25k fg claw lol

This post was edited by Goomshill on Nov 21 2021 02:06am