Quote (Tarisus @ Aug 14 2024 01:29pm)

I have similar experience as bolded in quote.



Hear me out bro. 1st of all jsp disagrees on a lot of things, if you still disagree after reading this, is fine.

For D2, we want to clear as fast as possible and damage is calculated based on damage per second(DPS). Here’s why it matters for Whirlwind.

A Barbarian wants to hit as many targets as possible and as fast as possible. Whirlwind itself has a hidden cooldown, if you were to go legacy mode, it’s easier to see. When one is in Whirlwind(WW), you’re immune to kb and cannot use potions. Every time you restart WW, theres an opportunity for monsters to put you in fhr and for you to use potions.

Although this cooldown may seem short but it needs to be added to frames lost per WW, as we recall that WW does its hit checks every 4th, 8th, 12th frames and so on. It’s not possible to control WW to land on 4th, 5th, 6th, or 7th frames, in the case of 5th, 6th, and 7th frames, then time is loss. Less restart of WW, the less this occurs or also having a longer range means less restart. Let’s call this wasted frames.

Another factor that needs to be added cooldown and wasted frames is human reaction time. Humans have reaction time roughly 0.25 seconds which translates to 6.25 frames in Diablo time. As we recall that WW is fast and deals damage in 4 frames. WW cooldown+wasted frames+human reaction will occur more often on shorter range weapons than long range weapons. Therefore longer range is better than shorter range.

It’s very easy to test and see when you see the extreme side of things by setting a War Pike and Dagger to same hit frames per check, same damage. You will notice that you’ll have easier time clipping targets with War Pike, aka longer range weapon in this case.

Tl dr, WW cooldown+ wasted frames + human reaction time means time loss for every time WW restart translate to DPS loss since damage is based on time.

Quote (Void511 @ Aug 14 2024 12:41pm)

You don’t need to do shorter more frequent whirls just because your range is shorter when enemies are in groups though. That only applies when talking single target

Quote (Tarisus @ Aug 14 2024 12:50pm)

It’s true that this is less of an issue if you were to fight huge size groups but Diablo 2, monsters always spawn in medium numbers. Even in Cows, it’s still limited sized groups.

When you calculate WW Travel vs WW attack speed, it will almost always end up being range 2 weapon will roll 1 extra hit check than range 1 PB.
https://i.postimg.cc/8PXdVNLH/IMG-3804.jpg

It’s more difficult to see the physics behind this, unless you have thousands hours into WW gameplay or watch the game frame by frame.

Quote (Tarisus @ 14 Aug 2024 18:50)

It’s true that this is less of an issue if you were to fight huge size groups but Diablo 2, monsters always spawn in medium numbers. Even in Cows, it’s still limited sized groups.

When you calculate WW Travel vs WW attack speed, it will almost always end up being range 2 weapon will roll 1 extra hit check than range 1 PB.
https://i.postimg.cc/8PXdVNLH/IMG-3804.jpg

It’s more difficult to see the physics behind this, unless you have thousands hours into WW gameplay or watch the game frame by frame.

Quote (daanno2 @ Aug 14 2024 01:09pm)

Weapons don't have ranges, they have range adders.

Range = range adder + monster size.

So the actual effective range is 1-3 higher (most things are 2 or 3) and not as pronounced.

Trav also rewards concentrating dps because of healing. If you spread out dps it's essentially increasing the overall health pool you have to dps through.

Quote (Tarisus @ Aug 14 2024 01:15pm)

Yes, that is correct. When I mention range of 2 or 1, it is in fact the rangeadder of such weapons. Not the total range.

Healing means regen, but is stopped by Grief’s Prevent Monster heal, poison damage and opening wounds. Monsters only have 1% life regen which is irrelevant when compared to DPS of high end gear.

Quote (daanno2 @ Aug 14 2024 01:16pm)

Those prevents natural regen, not when they heal each other