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Jan 30 2022 09:07am
There has been a long period with little change since I posted my prior guide to smiter shields (https://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=56553677&f=87), which provides details about how smite damage is calculated, what impacts that damage, and a few thoughts on different shields.

When that guide was written, one shield that was known to do significant damage but that no one used was Phoenix. Phoenix in a shield has up to +400% ed, which modifies smite damage. The problem was that Phoenix has a 40% chance to cast firestorm on striking. Any time this firestorm would cast, your character would be unable to use the smite skill until the firestorm finished casting/its cast delay ended. This almost always meant certain death in pvp.

The new 2.4 patch notes, however, contained this interesting tidbit:

Quote
Firestorm
Casting Delay will no longer share its cooldown with other skills that have Casting Delays
Tooltip updated to now display Casting Delay


I wondered if this also modified firestorms cast due to Phoenix and how. I tested this in the 2.4 PTR and I wanted to raise to the smite community through this post that firestorms cast by Phoenix no longer interrupt smite. This means that Phoenix is now a viable smiter shield, particularly because it has the highest damage potential in the game.

Thanks to CupoJoe in game, I was also able to confirm that Phoenix still out damages HoZ on the PTR, meaning the ED of Phoenix still applies to smite in the current version of 2.4. I also confirmed that the in game screen still does not accurately reflect smite damage as it showed lower damage when holding Phoenix than HoZ in the PTR.

Of course, whether it is worth losing the ability to have a ber in your shield when changing from HoZ/Jstod to Phoenix is a subject to debate and study (and of course FCR/res/stats are other considerations). Thanks to M0TAR0 who also raised that you also lose the increased block percent and block rate of HoZ/deflecting mod with Phoenix. Nevertheless, it may be time to start considering Phoenix in your smite builds.

To that end, I have done a bit of testing on Phoenix and, by calculation, Phoenix may be the bis pure smite / charge smite shield in the new patch.

For this testing, I used hero editor to create a level 99 smiter. The following gear stayed consistent across tests: ap enigma, maras, bk, raven, waterwalks, dungos, gloves (15dex/15str/20life), 6/6 cta, bo spirit, 9x 40 life pcomb, 20/20 anni, 20/20 ptorch. I switched helms and shields as indicated in the below table (Zaks were used for all shield bases). I then calculated the average smite damage and life for each condition after statting strength for gear, statting dex for max block, maxing smite, holy shield, fanaticism, casting holy shield from the highest level side (cta side higher in some conditions), and casting bc and bo.

The two Phoenix conditions (knights and res) had significantly higher damage than any other shield, though there is a fairly large loss in health due to having to stat additional strength to use CoA and additional dex for max block (CoA is necessary to make up for missing damage reduction from not having a ber in your shield).



I then took this data and used it to calculate how many hits a player wearing a certain set of gear would take to kill a player wearing each set of gear. This calculation does not factor in other damage sources such as open wounds/crushing blows/foh. In these calculations, with the exception of Knights JZoD, players using Phoenix would kill their opponent one hit earlier than their opponent would kill them (6 hits vs 7 hits). This advantage is why Phoenix may be bis for pure smite / charge smite duels in the new patch. Regarding the Knights JZoD, the Phoenixes would be closer to a 5 hit kill of the JZoD user than the JZoD user would be of the Phoenix user. It is possible with a landed charge/ow/crushing blow that this could turn into a hit advantage.



Of course, whether these calculations pan out in actual pvp settings is subject to further testing and any advantage may be compensated for in live matches by player skill/outside damage sources etc. But from a pure numbers perspective, it appears that Phoenix will be very competitive if not the bis for pure smite / charge smite.

I hope this information is helpful.

dac

(This post was moved here from the d2 discussion thread where it was improperly posted and contains revisions to the numbers due to discussions with M0TAR0)
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Jan 30 2022 09:14am
Excellent testing and analysis, thank you for posting this!

Makes Phoenix a much more interesting choice for many melee builds. I remember the horror I felt when I first tried it on a fireclaws druid...
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Jan 30 2022 09:18am
i tended to use knight pheonix on a charger in lod i would sometime win duel vs smiter by alternating charge and smite to try to mitigate the firestorm proc
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Jan 30 2022 09:50am
Quote (dac @ Jan 30 2022 10:07am)
There has been a long period with little change since I posted my prior guide to smiter shields (https://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=56553677&f=87), which provides details about how smite damage is calculated, what impacts that damage, and a few thoughts on different shields.

When that guide was written, one shield that was known to do significant damage but that no one used was Phoenix. Phoenix in a shield has up to +400% ed, which modifies smite damage. The problem was that Phoenix has a 40% chance to cast firestorm on striking. Any time this firestorm would cast, your character would be unable to use the smite skill until the firestorm finished casting/its cast delay ended. This almost always meant certain death in pvp.

The new 2.4 patch notes, however, contained this interesting tidbit:



I wondered if this also modified firestorms cast due to Phoenix and how. I tested this in the 2.4 PTR and I wanted to raise to the smite community through this post that firestorms cast by Phoenix no longer interrupt smite. This means that Phoenix is now a viable smiter shield, particularly because it has the highest damage potential in the game.

Thanks to CupoJoe in game, I was also able to confirm that Phoenix still out damages HoZ on the PTR, meaning the ED of Phoenix still applies to smite in the current version of 2.4. I also confirmed that the in game screen still does not accurately reflect smite damage as it showed lower damage when holding Phoenix than HoZ in the PTR.

Of course, whether it is worth losing the ability to have a ber in your shield when changing from HoZ/Jstod to Phoenix is a subject to debate and study (and of course FCR/res/stats are other considerations). Thanks to M0TAR0 who also raised that you also lose the increased block percent and block rate of HoZ/deflecting mod with Phoenix. Nevertheless, it may be time to start considering Phoenix in your smite builds.

To that end, I have done a bit of testing on Phoenix and, by calculation, Phoenix may be the bis pure smite / charge smite shield in the new patch.

For this testing, I used hero editor to create a level 99 smiter. The following gear stayed consistent across tests: ap enigma, maras, bk, raven, waterwalks, dungos, gloves (15dex/15str/20life), 6/6 cta, bo spirit, 9x 40 life pcomb, 20/20 anni, 20/20 ptorch. I switched helms and shields as indicated in the below table (Zaks were used for all shield bases). I then calculated the average smite damage and life for each condition after statting strength for gear, statting dex for max block, maxing smite, holy shield, fanaticism, casting holy shield from the highest level side (cta side higher in some conditions), and casting bc and bo.

The two Phoenix conditions (knights and res) had significantly higher damage than any other shield, though there is a fairly large loss in health due to having to stat additional strength to use CoA and additional dex for max block (CoA is necessary to make up for missing damage reduction from not having a ber in your shield).

https://i.ibb.co/R9jQRVZ/New-Table-1.png

I then took this data and used it to calculate how many hits a player wearing a certain set of gear would take to kill a player wearing each set of gear. This calculation does not factor in other damage sources such as open wounds/crushing blows/foh. In these calculations, with the exception of Knights JZoD, players using Phoenix would kill their opponent one hit earlier than their opponent would kill them (6 hits vs 7 hits). This advantage is why Phoenix may be bis for pure smite / charge smite duels in the new patch. Regarding the Knights JZoD, the Phoenixes would be closer to a 5 hit kill of the JZoD user than the JZoD user would be of the Phoenix user. It is possible with a landed charge/ow/crushing blow that this could turn into a hit advantage.

https://i.ibb.co/bJdqGB8/New-Table-2.png

Of course, whether these calculations pan out in actual pvp settings is subject to further testing and any advantage may be compensated for in live matches by player skill/outside damage sources etc. But from a pure numbers perspective, it appears that Phoenix will be very competitive if not the bis for pure smite / charge smite.

I hope this information is helpful.

dac

(This post was moved here from the d2 discussion thread where it was improperly posted and contains revisions to the numbers due to discussions with M0TAR0)



Nice write up. For us non-pvp players, would Phoenix now be BiS for Ubers as well?
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Jan 30 2022 10:10am
Well done :hail:
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Jan 30 2022 10:21am
The low key Phoenix buff is amazing.
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Jan 30 2022 10:22am
Quote (Hise @ Jan 30 2022 06:50am)
Nice write up. For us non-pvp players, would Phoenix now be BiS for Ubers as well?



Waste of high runes for an Uber smiter ^_^
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Jan 30 2022 10:40am
Might be good depending on how fhr/kb works now cuz its terrible to try and charge out of it on regular realms right now
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Jan 30 2022 11:43am
Another buff to paladin.... Just what Diablo needed
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Jan 30 2022 02:20pm
Quote (Hise @ Jan 30 2022 10:50am)
Nice write up. For us non-pvp players, would Phoenix now be BiS for Ubers as well?


I haven't calculated it, but my guess would be no. Most uber damage is going to come from crushing blow and it would be tough to beat the life tap proc from exile.

Appreciate the kind words from others. :hug:
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