Quote (GNX @ Jul 22 2020 07:49pm)

this, also light if it rolls well can decimate whatever, fuck resists.

fire is generally the most budget friendly which is why it became the most popular. Light and Cold are honestly better if you want to trash the ladder due to people having poor man setups vs those elements and also lack of practice vs those types in a lot of cases. 80% max solves some of this issue with es sorcs but ends up toying with builds too much making people feel to restricted gear wise on vita. which is why since es can in most cases out tank vita were left with only limiting es sorcs.

Those who take issue with this need to vs vincenzo a few times then come back with a relevant argument.

Quote (Textbook @ Jul 23 2020 09:26pm)

There isn't a cold sorc in existence that can do anything into a 450cold stack vita fb.
It takes too much sacrifice to get to enough cold penetration to even make it worth it.. and keep in mind ice blast is literally one of the slowest moving projectiles in the game, and blizzard is quite hard to hit.

Circlet: 3cold 20fcr 2socket facets (-25res total)
Amuet: 3 cold 100life (-15res)
Armor: Viper faceted (-10res total) (or a 2skill runeword armor)
Orb: 3cold, 20fcr, 3cold mastery, 2 socket facets (-40res total)
Shield: 35fcr Spirit (-10 res total)
Ring x2, arach belt: -15res total
inventory +14 skills = -70cold res
20 hard points into CM = -100cold res
battle command = -5cold res
hell gamemode = -100cold res

390 cold penetration to zero out resistances
75 is needed to hit max res, which puts us at 465 (15 over cap) - so this setup would be able to hit someone at 60cold resistance.

Keep in mind however, that we had to give up potentially:
30frw, 60life, 30strength, 90 mana, or other mods in order to grab a 3 cold circlet. We also had to double facet it, rather than using actual jewels.
Strength/mana/20fcr/resis from a rare 2sorc amulet, such as the popular fletch
Vipermagi jewel (in favor of facet)
Also keep in mind that we had to use a perfect magic orb (3cold, 3cold mastery [3 blast/blizz optional]) rather than a fathom, so we lose out on a decent chunk of damage (unless you get one with ice blast/blizz - in which case, you're arguing a cold sorc is only possible with a near perfect trophy orb).


Back in the day, there were popular svs private games that held to the notion that max res was capped at 360 in svs, but that there was no limit on sorb.
IE: If a fire sorc wanted to trade damage for survivability (by swapping 2x rings for ravenfrost), then they could do that. This is also why ES was solid back in the day because people typically just said forget about the resist, let's just go ES.
It's all about making people make decisions, pros vs cons.

There is zero reason why (under this ruleset) a gm vita fb can kill a well built blizz in 7FBs (85max res, 3700hp), but it takes 8-9 blizz for the vita fb to die (450CR) vs fathom build.
I tested this quite exhaustively (Recently) with ^Caramel 's cold sorc versus ^Yoitsbick 's vita fb sorc



tl;dr: The only reason anyone should play cold sorc in this ladder is because they truly love the class and don't care about having a severe disadvantage, even with extremely specific gear.

Quote (Textbook @ Jul 23 2020 06:26pm)

There isn't a cold sorc in existence that can do anything into a 450cold stack vita fb.
It takes too much sacrifice to get to enough cold penetration to even make it worth it.. and keep in mind ice blast is literally one of the slowest moving projectiles in the game, and blizzard is quite hard to hit.

Circlet: 3cold 20fcr 2socket facets (-25res total)
Amuet: 3 cold 100life (-15res)
Armor: Viper faceted (-10res total) (or a 2skill runeword armor)
Orb: 3cold, 20fcr, 3cold mastery, 2 socket facets (-40res total)
Shield: 35fcr Spirit (-10 res total)
Ring x2, arach belt: -15res total
inventory +14 skills = -70cold res
20 hard points into CM = -100cold res
battle command = -5cold res
hell gamemode = -100cold res

390 cold penetration to zero out resistances
75 is needed to hit max res, which puts us at 465 (15 over cap) - so this setup would be able to hit someone at 60cold resistance.

Keep in mind however, that we had to give up potentially:
30frw, 60life, 30strength, 90 mana, or other mods in order to grab a 3 cold circlet. We also had to double facet it, rather than using actual jewels.
Strength/mana/20fcr/resis from a rare 2sorc amulet, such as the popular fletch
Vipermagi jewel (in favor of facet)
Also keep in mind that we had to use a perfect magic orb (3cold, 3cold mastery [3 blast/blizz optional]) rather than a fathom, so we lose out on a decent chunk of damage (unless you get one with ice blast/blizz - in which case, you're arguing a cold sorc is only possible with a near perfect trophy orb).


Back in the day, there were popular svs private games that held to the notion that max res was capped at 360 in svs, but that there was no limit on sorb.
IE: If a fire sorc wanted to trade damage for survivability (by swapping 2x rings for ravenfrost), then they could do that. This is also why ES was solid back in the day because people typically just said forget about the resist, let's just go ES.
It's all about making people make decisions, pros vs cons.

There is zero reason why (under this ruleset) a gm vita fb can kill a well built blizz in 7FBs (85max res, 3700hp), but it takes 8-9 blizz for the vita fb to die (450CR) vs fathom build.
I tested this quite exhaustively (Recently) with ^Caramel 's cold sorc versus ^Yoitsbick 's vita fb sorc



tl;dr: The only reason anyone should play cold sorc in this ladder is because they truly love the class and don't care about having a severe disadvantage, even with extremely specific gear.

Quote (Tabuu @ Jul 24 2020 12:04am)

1st people dont play fbs because theyre budget and friendly, people play because theyre just simmply easy and op with the current rules set

2nd any vita sorc can do what vincenzo do, especially 200fcr fb, they just choose to not to, due to high time consuming thats the only reason vincen es sorc was on top.


tell me if a vita 200fcr fb play like vinc, you think an es or any other sorc have a chance ?

Quote (Yaekob @ Jul 24 2020 08:34am)

I am going to make one comment and not spam but after reading all this I feel like I need to. After dueling Adaption his build does great, if you are honestly trying to beat a good/decent vita fb or any other class with blizz you are playing it wrong...you have to kill with ice blast and try to land blitzes when you can... if you honestly want to see a cold sorc played to its full potential duel sadistic, Gemmd, or Adaption. They all utilize ice blast well, anytime you are standing still trying to sit under blizz or land blizzes you are doing something wrong...they also avoid stomps which is vital to winning vs anything as a cold sorc.

Okay on to ES FB and the notion that vita fb is OP and easy to play. This is 100% false, the skill cap for 200 fcr is endless and the amount of things you can do with the tele speed causes the skill cap to be endless. Therefore, players that like high pace duels and stomping prefer this build.

No ES FB would still win because when we take hit the damage stays and when ES get hits it goes to mana, our only chance to win is to land a good stomp and get multiple hits. Even if we dueled like that we’d lose and we would be better off standing in a corner spamming fireballs then trying to mirror that style...

ES FB is forced to play very defensively to avoid stomps, I would like to say it is very similar to playing a tals sorc without es, you have to run your ass off and try to land 1 fb shots and weaken your opponent until they die. You can’t win stomps due to the nature of the build and with ES you can effectively do this because it’s very hard to land good stomps with someone running and looking for a 1 fb hit knowing they can take a fb or 2 without it going to their life and breaking ES. Dueling something that is not trying to attack and stomp is not very fun, and on my tals sorc when I was on the ladder hated that I could not win stomps so I finally broke and built a 200. TLDR but reading some of this stuff had to say something.

Typed this with phone fuck autocorrect :wallbash:

Quote (Tabuu @ Jul 24 2020 09:29am)

yet another that talk logics/theories... thats well known already without actually compete with those chars.

Also stop mention adaptation or any other cold sorc, do it yourself, then prove me wrong maybe ill change my perspective.

Same goes with es

Quote (Yaekob @ Jul 24 2020 09:36am)

Logic/theories, that’s from many years of experience my friend.

I will never play ES because I wouldn’t enjoy running and l8zering and not being able to stomp....stated that’s why I went 200

All love Tabuu but I feel like you haven’t dueled an es from a 200 side, I may be wrong but just what I am seeing. I had to comment because I feel what I posted above is not logic/theories it is reality....haha

Also I am thinking about it but can’t build another char currently, that full pen build seems really strong and I think I could do well with it.

Okay my last post, sorry Brutal <3

Edit: I forgot about iplaycoldsorc, just saw him creep in here, he is great as well. Sorry if I forgot any good cold sorc players

Quote (Tabuu @ Jul 24 2020 09:22am)

Many years of experience ?

you mean experience from vincenzo? the only person that dont care if the match can go on forever and yall base on that to make rules for es that make the rest of other es sorc have no other choices but to play vincenzo style to win lol.

If an 200 vita sorc play same style with life rep, es stand no chance.

Yall are all too used to 200fb easily and comfortably going aggressive cuz OP, until got caught or outlasted then start spamming or give in cuz dont want to waste more time.

Just imagine if vincenzo play on 200fcr vita and do the same style or when you duel a low hp sorc.