Quote (legen @ Nov 20 2021 11:52am)

Aaron asked me about cold res limits, so I kinda went overboard again this morning....
Conclusions at the bottom, shared discussion for interested parties reference.



Okay so here's my conclusion:
1. Balance around the standard Fathom/Nw setups.
2. If anyone manages to get a gg-CM orb to slightly cheese, let them use it as is vs the Fathom/Nw rules
3. Ban the use of Doom, its literally not good and ONLY intended for cheesing people with massive -res / freezing. In the current state of the rules, (no res cap, or 450 max, or 410 max etc) it was way to strong vs anyone that actually stacks res. 450 is more or less the max res I'd expect people to be able to stack semi-easily.
4. New limits then are:
Max CR = 450 with no sorb, and
Max CR with 1x raven = 420 (interpolated this manually to match ~8.5 hits to kill), and
Max CR with 2x ravens = 325, resulting in less hits tanked for Barb/Ama only as 2x ravens makes getting the minimum CR to easy. Needs to be a downside to using 2x ravens IMO.

https://i.imgur.com/rs7uAmi.png

I'll post this convo in the rules thread for everyone's info/opinions.

Quote (yostraydog @ Nov 20 2021 01:11pm)

No.

People cant complain when Mr. Thundercock is teleing away 24/7 because he has to hit you 9x for you to die.

everyone who lost to a cold sorc with massive stack is simply bad...

Especially when youre factoring in builds, Chad wasnt using the standard build you mentioned because he was acclimating his char to be well rounded to duel everything in the tournament, this guy had a hoto lol.

people who lost to him are simply skill gapped, not because the rules played in his favor.

Quote (Aaronoob @ Nov 20 2021 12:14pm)

Are you saying 385 1 raven/410 is better? A few people pmed me with concern that chad's build was not optimized for the limits in play, and a fathom sorc using the same setup would 1 shot many chars. Too many variations to test them all so I wanted legen to run some numbers with his spreadsheets and see what makes numerically sense as an appropriate balance point

Quote (yostraydog @ Nov 20 2021 12:21pm)

There really is no way to balance it, unless you allow sorcs to respec skills in tournaments - If a sorc has max mastery and someone comes at them with 410-450 and theyre weak, they can even the playing field by simply respeccing skills and only doing 1 to mastery and maximizing the dmg on synergies. Jess' sin took like 12 blizz to die, chad could have done 50% more dmg if he was base mastery and used a fathom/NW.

There's literally no way to balance without respeccing. It's either sorc does no dmg, or she does amazing dmg.

Quote (legen @ Nov 20 2021 12:24pm)

if it were a fathom/nw, maxed skills vita blizzer, it would 2 shot any 4k life char with 400 cr or 275 cr and raven.... Not sure we really want that? Lol
Sorces have the ability to play fairly defensively easily, and blizz is the worst for it imo

Imagine even nec vs vita blizzer where the nec gets instantly 1 shot if using golem (which he shouldnt) vs 5 spears to kill
Or es blizzer where the sorc 3-4 hits nec, but is 10 spears + regen-able

Would def call what posted fair

Quote (yostraydog @ Nov 20 2021 12:27pm)

some duels arent meant to be won?

People trying to rebalance rules in 2021 is atrocious.

Nothing was wrong before. The only exception is kick (which i dont think should be banned but i understand why it is)

Quote (yostraydog @ Nov 20 2021 01:21pm)

There really is no way to balance it, unless you allow sorcs to respec skills in tournaments - If a sorc has max mastery and someone comes at them with 410-450 and theyre weak, they can even the playing field by simply respeccing skills and only doing 1 to mastery and maximizing the dmg on synergies. Jess' sin took like 12 blizz to die, chad could have done 50% more dmg if he was base mastery and used a fathom/NW.

There's literally no way to balance without respeccing. It's either sorc does no dmg, or she does amazing dmg.

Quote (TOESHANK @ Nov 20 2021 12:36pm)

4-5 blizzard by a hoto sorc

Wasn’t 12 at all ur dreaming LOL

I agree with max and ur input doesn’t matter cuz ur toxic and banned from everything :angel: :santa:

Quote (rayshs @ Nov 20 2021 12:33pm)

cuz D2R just came out and it has major differences from LoD? obviously the rules have to be adjusted? L

Quote (yostraydog @ Nov 20 2021 01:38pm)

If only you understood the game at all, you would know you died in 10-15 blizz.

I don't speak to people who lose to cold sorcs with 400+ CR LMAO.

How was 2nd place to me?

how was 3rd place to Chad/Zee?




Nothing about damage, resist, or the skills (Aside from sins MA skills) are different from the game.