since people don't like how stun/no wsg is on d2r, maybe having more than 1 point to mind blast = no shadow master, only warrior? then if you want a long range stun attack from your minion to hit often, you can't have teleport selected at the same time. hardly a proper balance, but it could be a step in the right direction if everyone agrees that assassins are way too OP in general

Fireblast banned
Wake of fire banned
Wolfs In Druid vs nec 1v1 banned

This post was edited by TOESHANK on Nov 1 2021 07:42pm

Would like to figure out a complete list of temp rules while wsg is busted. Am thinking that some other classes and matchups may require adjustment for balance as well.

Also may need additional limitations for team duels… a lot to consider

Let's just play lod XD

druids can only oak/bear wolves are banned
mind blast banned
shadow master banned
shockwave banned
warcry banned
smite banned

i dont think mindblast should be banned or smite or warcry

maybe level 1 mindblast , shadow warrior only
its not the wssg factopr its the long swirl time

if ur gunna ban smite just ban sins in general ... cuz ur taking out hammerdin game play v/t game play smiter game play basically anything that has to do with a paladin

This post was edited by TOESHANK on Nov 1 2021 10:28pm

If only 1 pt in Mb and warrior, no shadow GCs as well then to omit the pump of mb via items?

Would wolves be banned vs all or just nec (thinking dvb/dvh)?

Banning wolves, even vs nec doesn't make sense to me. The difference between legacy and d2r is the lack of WSG for the necro. Arguably, the matchup can be played fundamentally the same. Proper use of teeth vs wolves acts in the same manner. The matchup is one sided, yes. However, banning wolves not only forces the druid into a specific playstyle, but it eliminates crucial decision making and the interactions of the matchup. Classically, the matchup consists of teething vs wolves & spiriting vs bear. The druid, can swap summons to counter the nec, and the nec can swap strategies to counter the druid. It's a back and forth, fun interaction. Limiting druids to Bear, locks both players into a single strategy. Resulting in the matchup getting boiled down into spamming spirits and spearing as the druid misses stomps on the down walking necro (or training ofc). The issue you are all worried about still persists, as the druid can still bo his bear in the same manner l8z druids with wolfs can. The rules should be altered on the basis of the things that are fundamentally different from d2 legacy in d2r. Not based on one tourny where some t4 shitty druid bo's his wolves for 50 minutes vs a necro, because he can't name lock. Just because you consider something "lame", does not mean we should ban optimal strategies. In fact arguably, doing so is more detrimental than beneficial. Also, beat u.

TL/DR: banning wolves = stupid.

This post was edited by loftyEs on Nov 2 2021 12:47am

The fact people are even considering banning anything/altering the rules at all shows you all suck REALLY bad, lol.

If someone could beat someone else WITH wsg, they will win WITHOUT it as well under the exact same circumstances.

Wsg being gone doesn't change who wins a duel, it just changes how long the duel last/the pace of the fight.

I know im bad but wsg definetely changes the outcome in nvT ? I agree with you on all other m/u but the main prob is wsg against mindblast.
I would lose to most sins w/o wsg thats for sure while if I can use wsg its another story

This post was edited by Youshould on Nov 2 2021 03:46am