I got more annoyed when some random person would walk next to one of my duels and split me that way. Oak split isn't that big of a deal and I still won the duel 90% of the time even when split.

We should namely be discussing tournament and setb rules here, and oak sages can be stunned out of the way very easily.

I posted this to strat forum, and I am reposting here:

No torch would be the only way to ensure pure non-cast.

Torch from hellfire does a lot more damage than any other chance to cast item in the game (which makes it absolutely retarded to ban something like phoenix and not hellfire torch, imho). Someone using a 5% torch would do a lot less damage in a duel than someone using a 25% torch, just because of the extra damage granted by 25% torch and the opportunity for more torch kills.

Now, if everyone could use a 5% torch, that would be great, but since it won't happen we need to be realistic about it: 25% torch would give an unfair advantage against 5% torch and torch in general gives an unfair advantage in melee (especially since some classes might have max res in NM due to class skills or common builds [barbs for example] whereas other classes [paladins] generally have less than max fire res even in NM).

So, there are really only two options that make sense: ban torch or accept the extra damage potential from hellfire cast.

This post was edited by inkanddagger on Feb 20 2011 01:32am

Well the third option would be to accept the damage, but with the recommendation that people try to get a 5% torch, this damage would be reduced. At this point it looks like this is what will be happening.

So closee

http://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=32187727&f=87

their argument was its not happening because of economics... this is even less economical thats 300 fg at the lower end of charms..
and if someone would pm me how torchfire does so much dmg id appreciate because i do more fire dmg then a hell fire torch via my gear every hit then a torch does on that 1 in 4 hits...
and i personally never seen torch effect my duel either ;/ out of the select handful i lose to they are all 5% torch users o_O

Anyone who moves down to a 5% torch is putting himself at a disadvantage to anyone who stays with a 25% torch. This "suggestion" causes an imbalance. There are only two options - ban torch or keep 25% torch.

If people are bitching about two small charms, I will fucking buy everyone two small charms so they can go torchless. I can afford like 80 if need be.




DiabloWall (Slvl 10)
Number of submissiles = 10
phys dmg/frame: 22 - 30 (problably hitshifted to .34375 - .46875)
fire dmg/frame: 57 - 70 (problably hitshifted to .890625 - 1.09375)

Hitshift is 3, i.e. the damage is multiplied by 2^3 = 8, resulting in

Phys Dmg/Frame: 176 - 240
Fire Dmg/Frame: 480 - 584

This in turn must be divided by 256 to result in the final damage
Phys Dmg/Frame: 0.6875 - 0.9375 (17.1875-23.4375 per second)
Fire Dmg/Frame: 1.875 - 2.28125 (46.875-57.03125 per second)

At 1.875-2.28125 per frame, that is 46.875-57.03125 per second. And that is for only standing in one cell of the flame from one path. Typically the player is going to be hit by 3 of these cells so the fire damage per second of being in just one trail would be 140.625-171.09375 per second from one trail. Then the closer to the starting point the target is, the more trails that are likely to be hitting at one time. Which could be up to 10 in this case at point blank range. Then do a similar calculation for the physical part of the attack. All told, we are talking about well over 1k damage per second at point blank range before pvp penalty and resists.

This post was edited by inkanddagger on Feb 20 2011 02:32pm

Well its not the fact that people have to buy 2 more charms, its the fact that it would be a huge hassle to get everyone to stop using their torch. Like I said before, people use their characters for other things than the UGML, I'm sure a lot of people would get pissed if we banned torches altogether. I really don't think that torches have as big as an effect as your making them out to. Even so, I think its gotta be part of the duel we should just deal with.

This post was edited by Biglouy on Feb 20 2011 03:03pm

Tokens cost 1-2fg max.

Hellfire torch adds 1k-2.4k damage each time it goes off at point blank range (this is reduced by the pvp penalty and any fire and physical resistances your opponent has). In ZvZ, if you have 50% dr and 50% fire res, that translates into ~150-200 damage per torch cast to a player, and more if pdr% and fd% are less than 50%. If a set averages 5 hits, then the 25% torches will cast 1 or 2 per duel almost every time. A 5% torch user will cast one every 4-5 duels on average (Assuming ~5 hit duels). Then some duels might take up to 10+ hits, such as vs conc or druids. Then you start seeing torch cast 3 or 4 times a duel, and that damage can add up to an extra 800 damage in a duel just from torch. Then there are oak sages, which take the full force of the torch trail it gets hit by, and at only 500 life, it can die from a single cast.

This post was edited by inkanddagger on Feb 20 2011 03:30pm

I just confirmed this against Casey. With 75% fire res and 50% dr each cast of torch did between 115 and 200 damage. So my calc of it being around 2.4k damage is correct. Far more than any other casting item can even get close to.

how about inner sight on jabber?