I wonder if they'd already gone through what we're going through now and evolved past it to that point lol

common story seems to be that zvz has evolved and we are now way past the players of old, just bangin full dex GA into the darkness hopin for some hits

something very interesting happened for last couple challenges with -mammal, I had changed my style quite a bit to better match his and noticed we basically went full circle. we were constantly off-screen, trying to guess each other's position and bangin c/t into the darkness. sounded exactly like how people describe duels from 15-20 yrs ago

was meta in the past ever something like it is now? perhaps the top players of that time reached the same point drew and I did, and meta shifted accordingly

The point I'm making is that OW is not much different from PSN, which is already banned. Seems like an inconsistency to me.

If you want to increase damage output and decrease duel length, unban poison damage.

poison is very different in a couple huge ways

it procs every single time with no requirement to switch sides
there is a resistance for it, making people have to think about getting poison res or PLR

Exactly - at least you can diminish poison's damage output with proper gear and counter it to an extent. As opposed to, OW which is much stronger and you can only counter it with life rep, which is capped by the rules lol.

Meta in 1.09 was like 20 in pierce, no multi, tons of LL (gaze was the must). GA pierce you like 6-7 times. Most you the time you stay off screen and guessing where is other dude.
In 1.10 with a removing of pierce for GA, people started to prefer closer range combat. The need for high frw increased. But probably meta would shift other way if Faith would be allowed. With WF you just simply go full dex and hope to 1-shot a dude

hahah yeah that's what I mean, one-shot build seems pretty appropriate for the long range, off-screen, guessing play style. and perhaps top level at the moment does require that style to an extent



for sure but I feel there are already too many requirements for gear, we don't really have room to get PLR anywhere. only the top d2jsp traders would be able to hit rep cap, DR, good damage, life, frw, light res, fire res, swirls and poison res

maybe i'm biased as an average player but i'd prefer the barrier to entry be as low as reasonably possible while retaining some of the fun of character building d2 is all about. the move to unban fort is in this spirit

Yeah I think unbanning fort is the move here. I think it will shift the meta to 15dr bowside + ss on swap.

Pretty sure fort has 7 or 8 base life rep so might also want to look into adjusting the life rep cap, either up or down. I think dungo + fort would be 20 repl if I'm not mistaken.

e; or maybe leave it as it is in case someone wants to rock 160/60 with rep ring and dungo.

This post was edited by Chad_Thundercock on Feb 22 2022 10:09am

I think it's possibly an acceptable trade-off

160/60 users will have to seek rep on ring. fort users would have to seek rep on gloves, they could adjust dungo rep down to not overshoot cap

20 without having to seek rep anywhere is also already really close to 22 and u don't have to give up a mod for it. depending on length of duel, one setup would be slightly favored over the other

where would you suggest we move it to? if a move were to be made, I'd suggest cap it to 20. that way ppl at 22 now could just get worse dungo

I would it as it is at 22 so it doesn't affect the value of 9 rep rings zvz rings. They can be still viable in 160/60 setup.

I imagine most of fort players will just stay at 20 with dungo and fort.

agreed, i like this the most for now

I think it's too early trying to balance out the two setups haha I'm not game designer by any means and we don't we have any data yet