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Nov 10 2021 08:02am
Quote (Negro @ Nov 10 2021 06:12am)
these mf can handle the skill required to pk in nightmare


Yeah plz east pk is cringe.
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Nov 10 2021 08:28am
Quote (Azn Masta @ Nov 10 2021 12:24am)
The only chars where this is a concern against is sorc, necro and zons. Sins aren't going to kick barb/pallies/other sins etc. Druids lose vs good sin anyway so its a w/e.

For sorc, put a cap on cold stack. No one should be able to tank 25 blizzards to the face and live. This has been tested before for Coooley's DFC tournament and the fair limit was roughly 410 prior to Anya (without raven). For those who wear raven, cold stack should be capped at 385.

For amazons, can consider allowing plague (under 30k damage). This forces the sin to play more cautiously and run fade over BOS (which also addresses the ias issue). This also forces the sin to adapt and use PLR gear to negate the poison. It also forces the zon to pick between a more "vs all" build or go "pure bow" and pew pew people down with multi spam (currently also faster than normal due to ias issue).

For Necro, allow decrep and bone wall. Hell, I'd be okay with poison nova being allowed as well. This will force the sin to run fade instead of BOS.

TL;DR. All of these are potential solutions and have been tested in the DFC Season 3 (and it worked out well). Rather than ban skills, its better to open up the doors to more build variation and skills. Banning skills should be a last resort.




I really like these ideas, we don't need to keep restricting when we have gear/abilities that already exist to help. I don't want to see the same fpk builds every open tourney. We could open up different builds and gear choices and create a new meta for D2r, which is clearly NOT D2 legacy.

Couple notes:

Amazon's - why limit to 30k plague jav? That's only 1000 dmg over 11 seconds when you got other abilities in the game doing WAY more dmg instantly. What do you think the average health in pvp is? We could allow plague jav to do 1/4 dmg of the average health. Plague jav is not soammable and the other player has to be too aggressive or have poor positioning to consistently get hit by it.. What about 1 point in slow missile if decrep is allowed?

Necro - sounds good to me except psn Nova unless it is also capped on dmg. The difference between psn Nova and plague jav is that all the necro has to do is tele near the other player, spam Nova, tele away. The plague jav is a much slower, aimed ability.

Let's think of ways to promote build diversity, not destroy it.
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Nov 10 2021 08:32am
Quote (TheGreatWalk @ Nov 10 2021 12:28am)
M8, you really gonna make me level to fucking 99 so I can have 1 pt poison nova and decrypt?


Just respec?
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Nov 10 2021 08:39am
Just a few suggestions to fix the hour+ long duels.

1: Relying on mana pots from mods seems a little egregious. If your entire plan requires use of multiple mana pot belts I don't think that should be rewarded. Typically when people use more than 2 belts they are playing extremely defensively. We have seen a paladin do lap tracks around the map in combination of life rep. You cant hold charge for 40 minutes without mods just running extra mana belts over. Overly defensive trappers with life rep. If they run out of mana after 20 minutes of defensive play, then you get a breakdown from one of the players and the other can be more aggressive. Someone will make a mistake by being mana conservative. This could help explain why the finals are always hours long and everything else is five to 10 minutes like it should be

2: Ban life rep from non hoto items. The real use case for life rep is for long drawn out duels. Life rep incentivizes hour long duels and defensive play, two things you would like to avoid. It is way more exciting to see someone make a comeback / good move on low HP with no life rep. Life rep? Run in circles for 15 minutes then try to tele stomp again.

3. as said as well, you can continuously shrink the field of play after N minutes. Whether that be 5,10,15,20 intervals or something. Caveat is there are mods / people doing this so naturally the people playing will be crying about some bias/human element.

This post was edited by necessaryjpgs on Nov 10 2021 08:48am
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Nov 10 2021 08:39am
Quote (Steezish @ Nov 10 2021 08:28am)
I really like these ideas, we don't need to keep restricting when we have gear/abilities that already exist to help. I don't want to see the same fpk builds every open tourney. We could open up different builds and gear choices and create a new meta for D2r, which is clearly NOT D2 legacy.

Couple notes:

Amazon's - why limit to 30k plague jav? That's only 1000 dmg over 11 seconds when you got other abilities in the game doing WAY more dmg instantly. What do you think the average health in pvp is? We could allow plague jav to do 1/4 dmg of the average health. Plague jav is not soammable and the other player has to be too aggressive or have poor positioning to consistently get hit by it.. What about 1 point in slow missile if decrep is allowed?

Necro - sounds good to me except psn Nova unless it is also capped on dmg. The difference between psn Nova and plague jav is that all the necro has to do is tele near the other player, spam Nova, tele away. The plague jav is a much slower, aimed ability.

Let's think of ways to promote build diversity, not destroy it.


So I've tested this (extensively if I may add) and so have those who participated in the DFC Season 3. If we open the doors to poison builds, we will also have to establish rules around Poison Mitigation (either 175% PLR or 85% PLR + 10% Max). With 175% PLR, Poison Nova will only hit for a small % of someone's HP (I'm happy to record this on video if anyone wants to help test with me, but I think it was like 1/10th of someone's hp). Also, unlike Bone spells, poison nova requires that the necro get close up (which puts them at risk). Unlike in D2 LOD, poison nova isn't as big of deal as people think in D2R because of shared stash. Everyone is going to have plenty of room for stack gear and PLR set up. Its essentially no different than blizzard at this point. No longer need to ban it.

As for Plague, I believe 30k was the number (though I'm open to more testing) because that's the amount that would put someone at 25% - 50% HP after one hit with PLR gear on. We don't want a bunch of 9x jav gc plague amazons with 90k plague damage cheesing people and running away after getting 1 hit in, but I think it will make duels more interesting to watch if there is more variation. If someone is unprepared, that 30k is enough to take them to 1 hp. If they're prepared with PLR gear, then it will do between 25% to 50% life. This is reasonable since the skill is slow and semi-hard to pull off.

This post was edited by Azn Masta on Nov 10 2021 08:52am
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Nov 10 2021 08:41am
10k plague is the same as 70k

It'll bring you to 1 regardless (unless you have plr gear obv)
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Nov 10 2021 08:43am
Am not considering allowing the use of poison nova and poison jav zon, or auradin. Play a real class, or u can use those in coooley's events if he allows it.

I am however planning to add the following, so please provide any feedback if you have it:

Rules:
For Diablo 2 Resurrected ONLY - Temporary rules depending on bug resolution:
- Burst of Speed may only be used with heart of the oak. (due to broken ias frame caps)
- Dragon talon and dragon claw are banned. (due to broken block/dodge mechanics)
- Stacking of burst of speed and fade is prohibited. (glitch exists in which both may be applied simultaneously)

General:
- Arguing with the host and/or moderator may lead to disqualification.

Items:
- No more than 410 resist stack is allowed, or 385 with raven frost.

Sorceress Specific Rules:
- May not refill mana pots from the pool mid-duel if using ES
- Energy shield sorcs >80% may not use mana potions
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Nov 10 2021 08:49am
Quote (Aaronoob @ Nov 10 2021 07:43am)
Am not considering allowing the use of poison nova and poison jav zon, or auradin. Play a real class, or u can use those in coooley's events if he allows it.

I am however planning to add the following, so please provide any feedback if you have it:

Rules:
For Diablo 2 Resurrected ONLY - Temporary rules depending on bug resolution:
- Burst of Speed may only be used with heart of the oak. (due to broken ias frame caps)
- Dragon talon and dragon claw are banned. (due to broken block/dodge mechanics)
- Stacking of burst of speed and fade is prohibited. (glitch exists in which both may be applied simultaneously)

General:
- Arguing with the host and/or moderator may lead to disqualification.

Items:
- No more than 410 resist stack is allowed, or 385 with raven frost.

Sorceress Specific Rules:
- May not refill mana pots from the pool mid-duel if using ES
- Energy shield sorcs >80% may not use mana potions


altho alot of people wont agree, i think its what has to be done in its current state,
the rules can evolve back to more normal as the game does, assuming we start seeing real patches
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Nov 10 2021 08:56am
Quote (CallMeMatt @ Nov 10 2021 07:41am)
10k plague is the same as 70k

It'll bring you to 1 regardless (unless you have plr gear obv)


It is not. All pvp damage (including poison) is 1/6 of its normal damage.

10k / 6 = 1667 now add 75% resist on top 1666 * .75 = 1250

1666 - 1250 = a measly 416 dmg over 11 seconds or so.


70k / 6 = 11666 now add 75% resist on top 11666 * .75 = 8750

11666 - 8750 = 2916 damage over 11 seconds or so.
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Nov 10 2021 08:59am
Quote (Aaronoob @ Nov 10 2021 08:43am)
Am not considering allowing the use of poison nova and poison jav zon, or auradin. Play a real class, or u can use those in coooley's events if he allows it.

I am however planning to add the following, so please provide any feedback if you have it:

Rules:
For Diablo 2 Resurrected ONLY - Temporary rules depending on bug resolution:
- Burst of Speed may only be used with heart of the oak. (due to broken ias frame caps)
- Dragon talon and dragon claw are banned. (due to broken block/dodge mechanics)
- Stacking of burst of speed and fade is prohibited. (glitch exists in which both may be applied simultaneously)

General:
- Arguing with the host and/or moderator may lead to disqualification.

Items:
- No more than 410 resist stack is allowed, or 385 with raven frost.

Sorceress Specific Rules:
- May not refill mana pots from the pool mid-duel if using ES
- Energy shield sorcs >80% may not use mana potions




This is where you come in (as promised) and help me convince Aaron to not ban dclaw/dtalon in his tournaments. I like these tournaments, so I want to continue participating, but banning a critical skill like BOS/Dclaw is just not the way to go. Whirlwind on assassins is already clunky and barely works as it, at least let me dclaw/kick people in its place. Come on now.

This post was edited by Azn Masta on Nov 10 2021 09:00am
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