http://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=71217320&f=21&o=10#p478383730

Bui has spoken and the vote is 6-3.

can we have an exception for wof sins now?

So because 5 of ghost vs ghost assassin players think it should be able to be used means we should allow it?

Like I said, I could care less about a wisp or lo. It makes little to no difference.
Trappers are the least of your worries and not using 102 only makes it a harder duel.

I was asked to post a poll and I did so with valid input from people who have been playing assassins for quite some time. Not just any 5 ghosts or 5 assassins mind you. You agree with it too, and it is the logical decision so no need to try to make it personal. I would rather go 63 fcr wof/ww hybrid with a wisp than 102 pure wof or ww without a wisp vs a trapper any day. Whatever though if I have to I will just get a 174 w/s setup and wisp/lo. I fear no class besides a LS sin or a ww sin on a wof sin, I would just prefer to be able to use my ww setup vs ls sins like any other ghost. wof damage is basically null vs a ls sin as it is and I would definitely have an easier time vs ls sins with a pure ghost using current rules however wof sin has some advantages that a ghost does not have (vs bvc for example, even though bvc is still very difficult with a wof sin)

This post was edited by Gilgameshed on Jul 31 2014 12:27am

I'm aware you've messed around with these types of builds on d2pk and such but the items on there are much more superior to our items. Again, as a mediator of this ladder and someone who has played since the game was released (you probably know me i'm sure), I have no problem with the use of wisp or lo vs LS.

Not so much d2pk but I have been a sin player since 1.09 and the first thing I did upon starting 1.10 was working with new non-cookie cutter sin builds, one of them you may have heard of actually, it goes by the name of ghost. wof sin were one of my favorites and even in those early days of weapon shield trappers, wof sins were still viable builds. With wsg such an integral part of dueling today wof is indeed nerfed even more than it already is, the lack of these sins testament to this change in dueling tactics, however the wof assassin, regardless of this is still an incredibly fun class to play and as you & I both agree, should not suffer the much needed nerfs designed to balance its LS counterpart. It is like forcing airbags on bikes due to the existence of cars, when all a cyclist really needs is a helmet.

Thank you for agreeing, I doubt any wof sin will climb to the top regardless of absorb or not, but the idea of losing to a ls sin who doesn't know how to mindblast because of an inferior rule-set is enough to provoke me to avoid this ladder altogether or to start my own. Hopefully a compromise can be met.

It is not like I am asking for anyone to lower their shields vs this class, I am simply asking for the same resistance that every single other class in the game has with the exception of ES sorcs & LS trappers. wof sins do not fall into the same category of either by a longshot.

To Travis420, I can understand you not wanting to change the rules for the sake of argument & consistency, but please see from my side and from the other assassin players who have commented on my poll, that this is a much needed rule change for an entirely viable class that is held back by its mere association with the trap skill tree.

Thank you.

I believe I should be able to use a wisp or lo on ES sorc below 80 ES too. I have dueled alot of sins on my es fb on ladder and all it takes is 4-5 traps hits to take my 4k mana down to nothing and im done for in a couple fireblasts.

The rules are what they are and there have only been minor alteration to NooG's original rules from 2007.

I bet I could find a rule-set by marvel or others that state 1 piece of absorb is gm from 2004-2006 era if I looked. These discussions have already taken place. An es sorc is in a completely different ballpark than a wof sin, which no one here even has the experience to comment on. wof sins were even buffed damage wise in d2pk. If a ghost c/c sin can use a wisp, why not a wof sin? Still zero input on how this de-nerf would cause an imbalance. Furthermore, are fire druids subject to the same rule-set as wind druids? I haven't checked by I dont think so I sincerely hope not.

This post was edited by Gilgameshed on Jul 31 2014 01:03am

Sins are in a different boat though, they get 1 DR per fade point and they get max ias with 55 on MH and they have arguably the best skill in the game -- Mindblast

At this point in time these weird classes aren't played much. I know that Octogenarian guy was #1 on the NL World Ladder using a Fire Claw Shaman Druid.

This post was edited by straightedgerevenge on Jul 31 2014 01:04am

yes but we are speaking of sin vs sin here, where those sin specific benefits are applied to both classes. it all just boils down to 1.5k dmg 5 shots per trap vs 13k dmg 10 shots per traps.

ghost, and rightfully so gets to use wisp.

now a sin variant, even weaker than ghost, does not?

makes little sense to me and the other veteran sin players.

This post was edited by Gilgameshed on Jul 31 2014 01:14am

update to the rules:



Assassin Specific Rules:
- Dual Claw Assassins cannot use Absorb or + Maximum Resistance of any Element (Exception: One raven is allowed)
- Assasins that do not use lightning traps as a source of damage may use a Wisp/Dwarf/Raven