It seems super time consuming to have each person create their own list of matchup for every single build, that's like hundreds of matchups every person would need to record. Not to mention many of us don't know how a lot of matchups play out.

Best may be for some who are comfortable with certain builds make a starting list then the rest of us vote on changes to the list.

Or do you know a streamlined way to record all these? Like a program or website?

I kinda made the list of builds a little neater but I agree on the builds you picked.

Ill go on to provide yet another libby matchup list because science

E = even
F = favored
U = unfavored

Pure charger F
Pure hammerdin F
Libby
Vita fireball E
ES firewall F
ES fireball E
LS traps E
Bowa E
Tele barb F
Frw barb F
Necro F
Blizz sorc F
Hybrid Plague/bowa zon F
Pure Plague zon F
Tele druid F
Lightning sorc F
v/t (charge+smite+foh) F

I also suggest just counting up all the favoreds and evens where favored counts for 1 and even counts for .5, then the resulting number could pretty much equate to the builds strengthu

In this context libby would be rated at 14




This post was edited by Pants1 on Feb 23 2017 12:51pm

Hold on just a second, a very well made libby has similar hammer damage to a pure hammerdin, just less mana and life, and that's if you're too lazy just to throw on hdin friendly gear.

Then there's eth insight. The controversial pally excalibur, you think sin and trapper are the only builds who cower to charge? Firewallers are rolled immediately
Druids can't be careless with Tele staff
Necros must keep bonewalls up vs libby or charge is Insta win.

You're completely wrong in your assessment of hdin>libby

This post was edited by Pants1 on Feb 23 2017 12:59pm

This is true, there needs to be a control for inexperience. In light of that i'd say the same form could be filled out but leave anything blank you don't have experience with, perhaps whole characters.

but it's a bit less time consuming than one might think, it's factorial, so every time you fill out a form you have 1 less response on all subsequent forms. libby vs. bowa is already filled out for bowa vs. libby

Hdin has 125 fcr, better fhr, better life, and mana (this is pretty big)

All the good Hdin users I talked to and myself have always preferred a pure Hdin over a lobby unless charge is needed like against zons and traps.

You shouldn't be charging against necs lol

Unless your charge damage is actually does a damage of a real charger (around 2.5k at least), charge isn't too useful

This post was edited by Nerlens on Feb 23 2017 01:39pm

Here's a tier list for your list of builds in my opinion
a lot of people are saying barb and firewall tier 1, but their matchups versus fireball and libby just don't seem up to snuff

In no particular order inside any one tier

Tier 1
Libby
Vita fireball
LS traps

Tier 2
Bowazon
ES fireball
Firewall
Tele barb
Frw barb
Hammerdin

Tier 3
Charger
Blizz
Pnb Necro
Tele druid
Plague zon
Plague/bowa

Tier 4
Lightning sorc

Tier 5
Vendicticator\templar

Euro also have frw caps

Insight charging vs necros works very well

Look at typical kaz set up
All shown with 125 the and the one handed charge damage is like you said 2.5k.

With insight its insane damage
http://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=67015747&f=103

When you have the right gear, you gimp neither the Hammerdin or the charger aspect, its like best of both worlds.

But only with gear like that

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VOTE FOR HDIN INCOMMING

Hdin is not better lol. More mana? Who cares, a very good din reps as much mana as he uses because you don't use all that much when you have planned long charges for specific movements and aren't just spamming around thinking omg I'm synching so hard rn!

Of course you can't be fully aggro and stay on even mana, but just repping some mana and then returning to full aggro as soon as you've got the mana isn't l8zing, just stay on their minimap I guess is the consensus for the line between gm and bm

This post was edited by Pants1 on Feb 23 2017 02:37pm

I mean it's based on preferences

With Kaz 125fcr setup, how much mana do you have?

Having at least 1k mana is crucial for hdins. It's basically like teleing, charging is form of transportation.

Also synching is the most important part of hdin lol and you need decent amount of mana for that.