yeah you use a 2os 30 base ar viso helm instead of the 3x 15 max 60 ar jewels, so instead of 180 ar u have 150 ar and 18% to ar on char level.


last time i was on that zealer you had almost 4k ar, so idk where the 5k or the 7k came from. r u talking if u use blessed aim? cause ur dmg takes a big hit if u do.

so basically that 18% to ar on char level adds like 5-600 to ur ar, where as the 30 ar the usual helm has more than urs adds like 200.

This post was edited by MADIrishGunner on Jul 23 2021 12:45pm

clegs cc zealer > def scepter zealer

and it always has been since Tom proved it.

well yeah, clegs>> thats obvious.

a defiance zealer can use clegs too though, and it should.

that being said though, clegs cookie cutter build loses harder to the other melees than defiance zeal does, and that has also "been proven"

hence it has always been the consensus that defiance zeal is better overall.

yes but "the other melee builds" = conc. that's it.

and at least when 18 melee was active there were about 5x more zealers than concers, and cc zeal has a better chance against cc zeal than def zeal, and there's way more cc zeals than def zeals.

if i had to go in blind into a melee game id take a cc zeal if i wanted to win, but conc is #1 choice for style.

in any case 18 melee is all but dead so idc too much.

back in the days of 18 melee tourneys there was actually some very strong ele kick sins, jab zons, etc. not just conc and cc zeal or defiance zeal, and in those tourneys defiance zeal always out performed the cookie cutter ones.

and these days in the non ladder community atleast you see more barbs at 18 melee than you see anything else, so id rather go blind into a game now on defiance zeal tbh. unless i had access to cotas cc zeal which i do, and then like i said im actually curious to see if that could out perform defiance zealers at the top end.

gross, i remember ele kickers in 18 melee, and we only ever let them in to stop it from being a 2 build bracket. never liked it tho.

They died to zeal so it didn’t matter

there was some damn strong jabbers too tbh, i played cc zealer 18 for longer than ive played any lld i have played, since 2006 or so. i even still have a cc zealer myself, i just have to token it from being part zeal part charge to being full zeal, but ive got the char and i dueled deadmans 18 jabber he built on my account and he trashed me. And his isnt even the best one i currently know of. back in the day it was even worse than that because there were more 18 jabbers around who played.

like i said, 18 defiance zealer always out performed the cookie cutter build when it mattered in tourneys. i remember elusive would use cc most of the time and then any time a tourney was coming up he had another character stashed back to use which was defiance zeal. i never even bothered to enter back then because all i had was cc and i knew i stood no chance even tho my gear was basically perfect.

With blessed aim and I only loose 80 dmg from not going conc

I’m still at 1k zeal with blessed aim

thats bonkers you only lose 80 dmg from not going conc. super gg though. i've tried the blessed aim build before but i got pooped on by certain chars, like 18 jabber youd rather have higher dmg than ar because dodges and shit r how u avoid hits and their low asf defense ur gonna hit them with low ar just as often as high ar. 18 barb has like 7k defense during its conc swings and over 4k defense not during its conc swing, its hard to hit no matter what your ar is so youd rather have high defense to match theirs. 18 defiance zeal you do have an advantage on though i can admit that, just dont know 100% for sure if it would out perform defiance build vs every other char. it never used to back in the day, like i said though your helm changes things, that 30 more ar can actually make a difference.

should make a thread sometime looking to see if any of the top 18 melees r stil around other than rpg, its a shame rpg has the attitude he does so you cant have a coherent 1v1 vs him to test because he's a total dbag and takes everything so seriously because he honestly thinks he is the best player ever.