Fw vs fb fw is easier to execute actions and there's more room for error

however an excellent fb should win because in that matchup it's ceiling is higher and a perfectly played fw simply can't outmatch it

Haseo any char that's viable with a tele stick should suit you if you aren't tryna play a sorc

For the sake of this
Ignore how many of each there is, or preference, and assume the best from each duel eachother, 1 each.

If everyone can't agree then that's fine, but for now lets just start by listing the relevant builds, then hopefully a simple vote among whoever is willing to. Or just compare what you and I think.

Please let me know if you disagree with any and we can set up some duel testing maybe.

Ill add a few classes so I think I've covered most relevant, and I guess bowa is closer to even tbh for libby
Libby matcups
VS
Libby favored!!
Hammerdin favored
Foh favored
Trevors charger, favored (sorry m8, hope we can test this theory soon)

Fireball even
Firewall favored
Blizzard favored
Lightning favored

Bowa even

Dudu favored

LS sin even

Barb favored

Necro favored

Please let me know if u disagree and what a firewall list looks like

Charger matchup
Vs

Hammerdin bad
Libby bad
Foh favored

Fireball bad
Firewall favored
Blizz favored

Zon even

Barb bad

Necro bad

Dudu that knows about upcharge, even

LS sin, not sure

To me that is not tier 1 it dies to easy shit

Oh god this again

Barb fw fb are all number one
Libby trap bowa number two
The rest can all be 2-4 depending who plays it

Libby can beat anything though if he wants to play bm and abuse rep

We've done like 5 of these threads in the last 2 years lol

i'll do a bit of legwork on my lunch break most likely. I can make a blank format post so that people can more easily vote.

Edited double post

This post was edited by Pants1 on Feb 23 2017 11:38am

Kk cool. Hopefully we can get enough people willing to put their opinions on the line

Trev says tier 1 is fireball barb firewall, but libby is tier 2
Am I crazy or does libby not have a favored matchup vs barb and firewall?????


Ty for adding a list u happen to know how to find any older threads? That was the consensus between how many ppl?

This post was edited by Pants1 on Feb 23 2017 11:46am

Ok so in an attempt to end this once and for all I will attempt to create a fair methodology for answering this.

Answering this will prob take you about 5-10 minutes, so if you are game please do so.

The form will have 2 components. First you will need to fill out form for each build individually identifying each other matchup from all of the other builds in the form as "favorable", "even" , or "unfavorable".

Then once you are complete with this you will place all builds into a 5 tier system. No .5 tiers, not inbetweeners, no mentioning of hard counters, and no requirements for the # of builds allowed into each tier, nor any requirement that you use all 5 tiers. you simply cannon go beyond 5 to a 6 tiered breakdown.

Now before I go ahead and do this can we all agree on the characters that should be rated, that will be the real question in all of this:

(in no particular order)
Fireball sorc Vita
Libby
ES firewall
ES fireball
LS traps
Dex Bowa
Tele barb
Pure Hammerdin
PNB Necro
Blizz sorc
Hybrid Plague/bowa zon
Pure Plague zon
Tele druid
Lightning sorc
Charger
FRW barb
v/t (charge+smite+foh)


builds not on the list:
kicker/bfury/wof sin
cs zon
mauler
rabies/fury
nova nec/sorc
sumodudumancer
shock charger (tier zero)

This post was edited by thesnipa on Feb 23 2017 12:18pm

The counters for FW sorcs are Charger, Trapper, and FB.

I don't know why you guys never mention trap vs fw. Good trapper should not lose to a fw.



I think this is the best explanation for fb vs fw. If the player is actually a good sorc player, FB has the advantage and should win in a FT5. However it's probably annoying af to duel with and is probably easy to play as fw against fb.


I think tier one have to go like this

Tier one

Tele Barbs
FB (vita/es shouldn't matter, nobody should be completely es in lld, only use es for certain duels.)
FW
Trapper


I think Hdin/Libby should be tier two. Also Hdin>Libby unless you are dueling a zon or trapper.