Yes I think it needs at least 4 20/17's always and possibly 8 (or 12). obviously you can win with less, but comfort is nice as well.

on 30 dins i usually shoot for 800 mana or so i dont care to run out
need some bmanas

lol l2medi

Is there ever a use for a 2H charge weapon, say on a charger vs some casters, or is your charge damage with 1H typically high enough to get the job done anyways.

Take an oath HB for example (nice min damage and there should be a good few lying around).

161 str req vs lets say 130 on a normal build (110 req for IK + their 20str bonus). If Im not mistaken, with 5x 30ed jewels (1 in guillaumes and 4 in a dusk), this would have about 5k min charge damage with 25% deadly strike vs about 2.9k for a oath sc + 65ed spirit. Seems like a reasonable trade off for ~90 life.

/e also you could probably afford to ditch max damage scs here more easily for res or mana ones vs casters if your aim is for high min damage.

This post was edited by bonnerf2 on Mar 7 2018 08:59am

on a charger i don't see you needing a 2 handed weapon noting your damage is already 10K+ [ that can 1 hit an ESFB btw ]
remember as well that you lose the mana on spirit [ and the 65ed ] when switching to 2 hander
I experimented Dusk + 2 handed in the past but Peace is simply the dream armor vs casters so you are then stuck with str requirements.
again, vs casters you can wear str from belt but overall my opinion is no, 1 hander is sufficient or 2 hander is just not worth it.

This post was edited by ferdia on Mar 7 2018 09:54am

Gotcha.

If you look at the comments in the zealer guide - the mana is so so low. even with x8 20/17's in stash for long duels, if you were to remove the 100 odd mana from spirit you are just making life difficult for your self when looking to a 2 hander.
i guess a silver edged axe would be the optimal 2 handed weapon, if you were considering it, but again, you will struggle to get to the str requirements and the gains are offset by the sacrifices you will need to make elsewhere.

This post was edited by ferdia on Mar 7 2018 10:14am

I was just thinking with a HB you hit very nice min damage and could maybe work around that to guarantee a 2 hit rather than hope for a 1 hit with sc & spirit.

Lets say an average esfb: 5k min damage is ~350 life / 1650mana (61% es @ lvl11 i think) with the first hit and the second hit would finish them off. In theory you could use 40x 20/17 scs too as this wouldnt affect your min damage roll.

/e I closed my spreadsheet without saving but I guess the same inventory as a libby would work best for a min dmg charger. Also that 5k is charging with vigor, not might.

This post was edited by bonnerf2 on Mar 7 2018 10:29am

i will go away and think about this!

Ok, The VT Guide. I will brainstorm here similar to what I did when preparing the zealer guide.

The best place to start for the VT guide is here: http://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=55921475&f=143 That guide was written by Derpate [ pat ] who won the first time he entered one of my tournaments (The 19th MLD Tournament, located here: http://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=68582955&f=143&o=200 ) In that Tournament he beat me in the final 5-3 (after beating me 5-4 in the group stage), and he beat ben (phazz) 5-4 in the semi Final. [ both of us were bowa's and would be regarded as the no.1 and no.2 geared mld bowa's all realms ]

Broadly that guide advocates the following gear:

3PC 100 Life 2 sox circlet
3/100 amulet or 2pc/60life/10repl/90mana rare
Dusk 100 life 4 sox and Shaftstop
Zaka and Spirit shield
String of Ears, Thundergods and (my change) a Craft belt (or 100 life + res as temp as per his guide)
Raven, Soj and/or a really good rare
Aldurs, Gores, WWs, IK and/or Craft Repl Boots
Rare 20ias 9str 15 dex + adds Gloves | Bloodfists | IK | TO gloves

Weapons:
Charge Weapons:
Oath SC | Better Rare (ideally not range 1) - ensure 7fpa attained at all times. Ias jewels / Um desired
FoH Stick:
2 Pala 3 FOH 3 Conv [ x2 RBF ] (Temps would be 3FoH 3 Conv x5 RBF's or 3PC 3 FoH 3 COV x2 RBF)
Smite Weapon [ in Knout or Flail ]:
40ias 4 sox Um or 3-4Um + ED IAS jewels (1 or 2jewels) < what pat advocates
3PC 40ias 2 sox [ um um ] < what i use

Boots:
IK Combo vs Ama
WW + Rare Gloves vs rest
no reference made to Aldur/Gores [ will have provide input here ]

Skills
need to update this here, focus on Pure FoH [ not allowed in tournaments ] and tournament tolerant VT skilling [ i.e. Max 3K FoH in any matchup ].
Focus on To-Hard-Skill-Foh or Not, To-Hard-Skill-Medi or not, To-Hard-Skill-Vigor or not and to balance IAS (Fana, Jewels) across all setups [ tricky! ]

Things to aim for (direct from that thread)
1. Use rbfs if you foh a lot, use ed if you smite a lot, use dr if you need it, use life belt/armor if you dont, use repl amu in long duells
2. Use your % ed ST as much as possible, especially against ama and asn
3. Use zaka as your smite weapon against charge pala/libby/ barb the defense boost is worth the sacrifice in dmg
4. Avoid zaka as a foh weapon against asn/nec/sorc you'll need the fcr
5. Stat gloves (rare or ik) against ama; go for life/fcr where needed ?
6. Whenever you need fhr/fcr spirit is enough except for fcr against sorcs where you could go for 50%
7. Assassins are allowed to use TG which means they'll absorb 1600 screen dmg therefore its vital to get a decent amount above that - consider that in your build
8. Aim for lvl 15 Holy Shield

I hesitate to poke holes in anything from pat since he was brilliant in terms of paladins, so rather then trying, i will see if i can ask him via pm xD

Some questions that spring to mind for me:

1. Why not use Gulli vs Ama, noting that you dont need to use FoH to kill them (charge Smite is sufficient and what he used vs me and Ben). If I question myself, it's worth observing that he still beat the best gear amazons even without gulli. i.e. he valued more life over the extra damage, and the results prooved his build more then capable. The only point then is, why not wear gulli if all other equipment allows it (there may be ias considerations), the ability to potentially live longer via the added life should be considered.

This post was edited by ferdia on Mar 23 2018 02:42pm