Summon necros at 18 are tough enough to beat if you dont have decent ele dmg (or magic dmg)

Im rolling sumo dudu if 24 is kosher

Thinking 18 inv. 15 7s. 1 dudu pelt not most op of all builds at 24 rly. Helps ss skills.

This post was edited by thesnipa on Dec 18 2017 07:07pm

IMO the rep cap at 30 should be 20 for all and 10 for Es sorc, ideally zero for hdin if they hard point medi or 10 if they don’t.

Banning kB on zon is not a bad idea, IMO it is useful in many situations but never needed, and in other situations it is overpowered. Soe+kB gloves setup vs charger is great though, and some of the barbs I have met can be downright mean to zons who don’t have it. It’s hard to say if a sweeping ban is good or not, but it would be better than a messy list that bans it some places and not in others

IMO wsg should be allowed

Amp being allowed wouldn’t even be a discussion of item creators didn’t exist... there would maybe be one decent amp bow per realm and that person would deserve the amps because the item would be incredibly rare and hard to acquire, which is a part of d2 and dueling. But the fact that anyone can just order anything they want kind of makes it more iffy. Is item creation still a thing?

75 res cap in all situations is best

I think that’s what I read you guys talking about for lvl 30 rules, thought I would throw some opinions in there

bom bom

So broadly:

18:

Max 50frw for Ama, and may not str bug
Allow Sorc and Druids (Not fissure) to level to 24 - some restrictions may need to apply. I am thinking the distinction of shapers rather then druids is more apt, but i am open to discussion of course.

re: "why not just allow 24 sorcs and shapers, then crown only the 18 victor if it proves too OP. no reason to even do extensive testing, let the tourney be the testing." / "Lets just test it in some fun tvts. Probably premature worrying about it until its tried a bit."
Thats exactly my idea - allow in group stage / tvt, but bar from Ko stage for now.

The idea here is to get agreement from all - East and EU.

30:
Allow WSG (always? is it not better to say allow WSG vs assa?)
Allow Teleport Staffs
i believe Amp on bows should remain banned - i dont immediately see an issue with allow other classes to use it though...happy to discuss.
25 repl life (10 on paladin and ES Sorc) - can we compromise in any way - 15 (or 20) repl max, 10 on paladin and sorc. otherwise it gets complicated fast
Max 75 all res

The idea here is to get agreement from all - East and EU.

@18 I'd be more inclined to say no cthons on a zon for now and see how anything else plays out in tvt before worrying about making it a rule. No cthons make a pretty big difference alone (and would let zons keep str bugged bow, spear & shield which is nice). Simpler rule than introducing a frw cap for one char (and gear bans) yet good zons will still win while good kickers will no longer get 5-0'd. Sure they could try to bug a pair of normal chains still, but at the cost of 10frw, life and stamina, not to mention there are very few rare chain boots lying around at 18.

As an aside, I still think lvl18 FB sorcs are lovely tvt chars, especially Pekas and Sa_Se's (Kev has one too I think but he likes assassins too much to use it often). With shapers (Im thinking feral rather than rabies as imo its the most viable), allow them to 24 and give them unrestricted inventory access and they become very strong. Restrict their inventory and they are the same as 18 (tanky, but low on the damage side).

@30 Im all for simpler the better, and I like how tele staffs might speed up some matchups even if I get wrecked more by barbs. As much as I like how no wsg impacts tvt, if you are looking for cross realm rules I would prefer wsg vs assa only rather than spamming wsg on all chars for desynch. Frw rules uncapped or capped?

For reference, results of assa vs bow duels in last 18 tour (and a chunk of these were with bugged cthon):
assa lost 5-2
won 5-1
lost 5-0
won 5-3
lost 5-2
lost 5-1
lost 5-0
lost 5-1
lost 5-0
lost 5-1
won 5-3
won 5-0
won 5-1
lost 5-2

Bowa favoured for sure, but duels without cthons were close. The bowas in question were Seb, Lee, Fer, Myself and Andy so all well used to a bow too. assas were gui, lee, peka and timmy.

This post was edited by bonnerf2 on Dec 19 2017 06:09am

18
note that i ran out of stamina 2 times vs lamara - with cthon's. He also heavily lagged twice, and in 2 duels which i won i had less then 10 life left. 50frw, on its own really feels like the simplest solution - would suggest we see what happens with it and then take stock of the situation? its a nice matchup...
The problem for shapers @ 24 as I see it is the same as at 18 - cannot use the rune Shael. i.e. their weapons will suck without ias. That is mitigated by the addiitonal skills (shockwave maybe?) and items available (say - invent). I will see what i can do about a sorc @ 24.

re: above, Ama vs Assa - Winning 9 and losing 5 is pretty balanced, reducing the FRW would only balance it further. remember its not just vs Assa we are looking at here, we are trying to consider other matches where the opponent has to chase the zon. By limiting the frw rather then the item, you are enabling builds the CHANCE to catch the zon.

30
i repeat that wsg vs assa alone seems suitable, happy to discus. i know some people would be turning in their grave if they saw this wsg discussion...
i also think the EU frw rules should apply

This post was edited by ferdia on Dec 19 2017 06:23am

Sure, I'm all up for testing. Also, I have a fb sorc and a blizz sorc at 24 - no need to look too far there ^^

(also I recall one result which was 5-1 to the assa with became a 5-0 shortly after in a fun ft5 once the ama put on cthons instead of cow kings - i guess thats kind of the reason the no cthons stood out for me). Bearing in mind you are talking about balancing the second strongest char, not the strongest ^^

This post was edited by bonnerf2 on Dec 19 2017 06:21am

The strongest character being a paladin right ? I am open to (varied + multiple) suggestions in this regard.
btw are you at home? tour duel? XD
i am meant to be out shopping...(!)

This post was edited by ferdia on Dec 19 2017 06:27am

Nope, in the office until Friday - no holidays for me! I'm gonna beat Seby when I'm home and then we can get our two matches done

This post was edited by bonnerf2 on Dec 19 2017 06:28am