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Jan 14 2020 08:31am
Quote (IAmAsylum @ Jan 14 2020 03:01pm)
MDR 5 is a good limit, idk why you have PDR + MDR cannot exceed 5 and then say that MDR is banned; most rare armors have MDR at this point so you're excluding soooooo many good items by saying this? PH sin does just fine vs 5 mdr

I think zon rep limit is too low, disallow glitched treads and raise rep limit to 15 ish. This lets zons use actual good rings and not just random crap xD; if you're worried lower zons frw limit to 71 or disallow KB

amp needs to be allowed on nec for tvt

Allow hybrid flail for shifter druid


Well the point was that if total DR was capped at 5, a caster could still have 3 MDR through stealth, but then could only have 2 PDR o add up to the 5. A non caster could then only have up to 5 PDR.

I want casters to be able to do more damage vs non casters.

Everytime amp has been cast in a tvt it has been OP and we end up shuffling chars around.


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Jan 14 2020 08:31am
I agree with everything that frank said in his first reply, pretty much sums up my thoughts as well.

Quote (thesnipa @ Jan 14 2020 03:11pm)
Taking amp off nec also makes summon necs completely unplayable. and from what ive heard Eu tvt tends to have a few of those from time to time.

Fateful, a few years back, lobbied to get sockets reduced on chargers. they get an extra 2 in their shields, and can boost that even more through ez DS in clegs. requiring a 2 os shield (rare of some kind) and a robo instead of clegs could be an idea.it just comes down to who plays pallys and if they're willing to rebuild them. personally i think if u make chargers have zero frw, zero rep, 2 os shields, and even require rare only weapons, they still kill everything with relative ease. im fairly certain u could limit them to 1 hard pt charge 1 hard pt might, force them to leave all other skills empty, and they'd still win. but that's 1v1 and not tvt.

then the question is how, or can you even, make up for the lack of kit all chars have other than pallys. zons are already close enough, no need for a buff. but then do you nerf them just to make them closer to the pack but further from chargers? and all of your changes need to be, for the most part, without changing char level. complete rebuilds are out in a fairly inactive bracket. ive always found the easiest to be inventory changes. lack of frw, lack of res from charms, etc.

really tho, and a thought ive had for a LONG time, is a mana limit on chargers.if a charger has say 100 mana max, they'll wear angelics and have more ar they already dont need. they'll get more dmg, rep, etc. but they'll oom quickly and be forced to throw more or zeal more, both things that can be dealt with easier than a pally charging then ghosting you. limit mana on chargers i say, angelics are cheap, and less mana charms in inv. see what that does to the meta.


Honesly i wouldn't bother to rebuild a character at this stage of the game, i can do minor changes like adapting to skills or w/e but other than that i'd rather just not play tbh. And i'm up for trying any kind of rulechanges, always been. There will always be some character that will be overpowered tho imo, if you nerf paladins and amazons completely then some other character will take their spot. And i don't mean they shouldn't be nerfed because they obviously need to be, but it needs to be reasonable nerfs.

Mana rule is an interesting idea, tho it would completely change the way paladin is played and would most likely require a lot of gear and inventory changes.

/e and everything regards hybflails or w/e i have the oppinion i always had, not every single class needs to be playable. Rather than allowing hybflail to make a shaperdruid viable why not just realise that shaperdruid is weak and build some other char.

This post was edited by Skullflower on Jan 14 2020 08:35am
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Jan 14 2020 08:34am
Quote (Skullflower @ Jan 14 2020 08:31am)
I agree with everything that frank said in his first reply, pretty much sums up my thoughts as well.



Honesly i wouldn't bother to rebuild a character at this stage of the game, i can do minor changes like adapting to skills or w/e but other than that i'd rather just not play tbh. And i'm up for trying any kind of rulechanges, always been. There will always be some character that will be overpowered tho imo, if you nerf paladins and amazons completely then some other character will take their spot. And i don't mean they shouldn't be nerfed because they obviously need to be, but it needs to be reasonable nerfs.

Mana rule is an interesting idea, tho it would completely change the way paladin is played and would most likely require a lot of gear and inventory changes.


i think requiring angelics jewelry could be an easy test to see how it changes the meta. more throws/zeals might help out a lot, but could also just make zons king above the rest lol

but i hear u on rebuilds lol. most of my chars dont have anyas done, its been that long since ive been motivated to change much lol.

This post was edited by thesnipa on Jan 14 2020 08:35am
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Jan 14 2020 08:37am
Quote (thesnipa @ Jan 14 2020 03:34pm)
i think requiring angelics jewelry could be an easy test to see how it changes the meta. more throws/zeals might help out a lot, but could also just make zons king above the rest lol

but i hear u on rebuilds lol. most of my chars dont have anyas done, its been that long since ive been motivated to change much lol.


yeah thats a nice idea, could try that for sure. Easily tested as well.

Haha yeah same here :d
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Jan 14 2020 08:38am
My biggest issue is thinking of the fg cost to move around items

Got a really nice Where armor on your zon? Boom can’t use it cause it has mdr. Swap it for a 3os bp will cost 180-300 fg. I would argue it’s just as easy to drop max fire res to 65 if you’re going that route.

Treads is an easy change that makes a big difference, anything token is an easy rule, removing kb is an easy rule
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Jan 14 2020 08:44am
I mean what exactly is the goal?

Nerf paladins
Nerf zons
Neutral sins?
Neutral barbs?
Boost fire sorcs (light/cold will never be viable)
Boost fissure
Boost necs

If that’s the goal then why not go cheap tour eq?

Max 65% fire res all classes

Paladins
- must use Angelics
- max one point might

Zons
- must use Angelics

Necs
- allow recast X1

This post was edited by IAmAsylum on Jan 14 2020 08:51am
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Jan 14 2020 09:02am
Quote (IAmAsylum @ Jan 14 2020 08:38am)
My biggest issue is thinking of the fg cost to move around items

Got a really nice Where armor on your zon? Boom can’t use it cause it has mdr. Swap it for a 3os bp will cost 180-300 fg. I would argue it’s just as easy to drop max fire res to 65 if you’re going that route.

Treads is an easy change that makes a big difference, anything token is an easy rule, removing kb is an easy rule


i don't think 65 fr is low enough to make a diff
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Jan 14 2020 09:08am
Quote (randythebadLLDer @ Jan 14 2020 09:02am)
i don't think 65 fr is low enough to make a diff



Can just as easily drop to 45/55 fire res tbh

But it can be tested incrementally

Iso math for pvp dmg at each res Because I’m too lazy to do it myself
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Jan 14 2020 09:23am
Quote (IAmAsylum @ Jan 14 2020 03:44pm)
I mean what exactly is the goal?

Nerf paladins
Nerf zons
Neutral sins?
Neutral barbs?
Boost fire sorcs (light/cold will never be viable)
Boost fissure
Boost necs

If that’s the goal then why not go cheap tour eq?

Max 65% fire res all classes

Paladins
- must use Angelics
- max one point might

Zons
- must use Angelics

Necs
- allow recast X1


The goal is to strengthen the viability of casters while also softening up OP builds.
Removing auras on chargers does a LOT of work in terms of reducing their overall damage. Other options are either expensive fg-wise or hard to police. Im not sure if this rule change is enough in 1v1, but im fine with just no aura chargers in tvt.
Same with 10 life rep, no glitched cthons on a zon, not sure if more needs to be done in 1v1, but this seems ok in tvt as well.

I would like a lower MDR cap, but it seems as though this might pose a problem in terms of replacing gear etc. The idea was that to a ph sin for example 5 DR/0 MDR and 0 DR/5 MDR are the same thing, but to a bone necro/trapper/fissure druid they are not.

lower res caps are also hard to manage (trophy gear may have high fire or light res) as well as hard to police.


As an aside, i am glad that we are all having an open debate on this topic. Its been bouncing around within private conversations for a while now, and i think its about time to shed some light on the issue again
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Jan 14 2020 09:25am
Quote (IAmAsylum @ Jan 14 2020 04:08pm)
Can just as easily drop to 45/55 fire res tbh

But it can be tested incrementally

Iso math for pvp dmg at each res Because I’m too lazy to do it myself


give me a couple hours. gunna sleep off this headache
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