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#121
Dec 27 2017 04:04pm
Quote (thesnipa @ Dec 27 2017 10:54pm)
druids at 30 cant hit the correct fcr bp to teleswap / shockwave / nado. if they could maybe a zoo limit would be in order.

honestly a lvl 49 tele shockwave nado would tear up a lot of people, does dan employ this tactic?


Given everyone at lld and mld has max block it doesnt really work nearly as well as hld. Having said that I have seen Dan use it well in 30 windy vs windy (and on occassion vs bowas).
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#122
Dec 27 2017 04:08pm
Quote (ferdia @ Dec 27 2017 03:56pm)
No he does not. Its just tele zoo nado.
well, i have not seen that. his damage is just insanely high.

snipa you are a fountain of information, thank you.


:blush: :wub:

99 FCR breakpoint for 11 frames (human) 10 frames (bear) is IMO too slot to catch anyone with it. and to hit that u need 20 fcr staff, vmagi, 10fcr belt, mages, and 2x fcr rings. (no sojs, no soe, no bfists) or u force circ to use sojs, get mana but still lose +1 nado

at MLD with items like suicide branch, 20 fcr ammy, circ tele charges (read: can wear spirit through tele) in play id guess it would wreck a lot of people with full zoo. might still even with 1 zoo. if the shockwave hits, the bear hits automatically, then ur nado hits. without wsg this may be an autokill, havent ever tested it without wsg and i cant do the mental math on FHR effectiveness.

Quote
'Seeing stars' animation means a target is stunned: on players, this means any successful hit isn't bound by the hit recovery damage requirement, as any successfully dealt damage will cause hit recovery; on monsters, this causes the AI to bypass attack, and sometimes other, subroutines. Mind Blast and Twister, Shockwave and Warcry, and Smite and Stun all do this, each with their own degree of effectiveness, unique application, and are paired in similarity of their capabilities.



Quote (bonnerf2 @ Dec 27 2017 04:04pm)
Given everyone at lld and mld has max block it doesnt really work nearly as well as hld. Having said that I have seen Dan use it well in 30 windy vs windy (and on occassion vs bowas).


tis true, i always forget those wierdos at HLD have a lot of non-block setups especially for caster duelers in pubs.

This post was edited by thesnipa on Dec 27 2017 04:10pm
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#123
Dec 27 2017 04:12pm
99fcr staff side just needs 1 fcr ring.

Rep life can be got on the belt (5), ring (5), 3x pskulls (15), amulet (10), boots (10). Typcailly though its just the amulet and ring. CKs for max block and rubies (or shael) in gear. I dont think windy is a char where rep life is as big of a deal. If they are not pressuring you then you should be pressing them while they are trying to recast their zoo. Not a long duel and I find the extra life more useful. Dan might disagree.

This post was edited by bonnerf2 on Dec 27 2017 04:12pm
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#124
Dec 27 2017 04:14pm
Quote (bonnerf2 @ Dec 27 2017 04:12pm)
99fcr staff side just needs 1 fcr ring.

Rep life can be got on the belt (5), ring (5), 2x pskulls (10), amulet (10), boots (10). Typcailly though its just the amulet and ring. CKs for max block and rubies (or shael) in gear. I dont think windy is a char where rep life is as big of a deal. If they are not pressuring you then you should be pressing them while they are trying to recast their zoo. Not a long duel and I find the extra life more useful. Dan might disagree.


indeed my mental math failed me!

at least i didnt base an entire build concept on the idea that vmagi gave 35 fcr, because ive done that before for sure lol
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#125
Dec 27 2017 04:21pm
Quote (bonnerf2 @ 27 Dec 2017 22:18)
There is what, 1 active windy on europe at the moment? This seems like a "I can't beat Dan so let me nerf his char" rule.

Out of curiosity how much testing have you done on a windy with 1 wolf? I know you said rules should be tailored to the top duelers (and I don't consider myself next nor near top of any build), so how many matchups would you expect to win using 1 wolf vs the top sorc, barb, sin, nec etc?

If I am not mistaken there are a lot more windys on East (or there was when it was active) and they didn't have the run of the place.


Quote (Twinsen @ 14 Mar 2016 12:09)
I am disappointed, I was away 4 days expected this to be on page 100..^^




Are you who I think you are :O Wb



There is some good zons on eu which i've dueled.
But with the current eu rules or (last tour rules didnt look whats changed yet. ) it really doesnt matter how flawless the zon plays.
It's more how the dudu plays and if he doesnt make any big mistake its pretty much a free win. However with just allowing kb for zon the m/u would change alot I believe.
But I havent tried it out yet at lld


About your pm ferdi:





Well I guess I'm fine with whatever rules.
But idk why on euro its typical to dumb down matchups.. to nerf the strong chars rather than to boost the weaker ones? takes away some of the fun sometimes imo :/ obviously not all matchups can be completely balanced.

No bear and max 1 wolf vs what? On dudu vs all chars?

Without summons, telenado is like a slower version of sorc with limited teleports and no block and inferior range.

vs nec I usually ask the nec if he wants me to use grizzly instead of wolves since with wolves I can get away without losing any life with grizzly its more fun for both. 1 wolf would be ok too I guess.
Maybe also allow more frw on nec? idk.

Vs bowa/hdin/barb/charger I cant really play as offensive as I want with 1 wolf and no block.

For bowa like I said I think kb would help alot vs teledudu, it does at hld. Just fury the summons away and quickly swap to bow and nl the druid with ga. Dudu can't stomp you as easily if u kb him plus he will have a harder time to escape to recast.
So allow kb + amp vs teleporting chars? vs any frw chars I think kb on bowa might be a bit lame though

I don't mind more pets vs other chars (and i'll be happy to have rules worded that way), but against ama & nec it just isn't balanced.
As for 'i can't beat him so i nerf his char', i'm the first to say dan plays exceptional on telechars. But i don't know if his skill on such is that much higher than mine on ama/nec to justify being virtually unkillable. Assuming i play those better than anyone else, i think it's fair to nerf on that basis. If anyone comes along doing a better job, i'm happy to acknowledge that and try to improve.
Lastly, rules in euro-pvp, which were based on extensive testing, can offer some hints. As i mentioned, they limited druid to one wolf & forbid hurricane vs ama.
/dan's quote source: http://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=74089372&f=143&p=501107266

This post was edited by rudipk on Dec 27 2017 04:26pm
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#126
Dec 27 2017 04:23pm
Ban ww and shields on barbs vs shapers because i don't know if your skill on such is that much higher than mine on a fury druid to justify being virtually unkillable.

Every char does not have to be able to kill every other char.

/e also I have come very close a few times to picking rounds off Dan's windy on a nec and you are a better nec than me Alex.

This post was edited by bonnerf2 on Dec 27 2017 04:30pm
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#127
Dec 27 2017 04:30pm
Quote (bonnerf2 @ 27 Dec 2017 23:23)
Ban ww and shields on barbs vs shapers because i don't know if your skill on such is that much higher than mine on a fury druid to justify being virtually unkillable.

Every char does not have to be able to kill every other char.


Not every build, but the rules are in place to give every class an as equal as possible chance to win.
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#128
Dec 27 2017 04:32pm
Have fun
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#129
Dec 27 2017 04:34pm
i guess we'd need to get an opinion on the matchup change in score with:

tele druid 1 wolf

tele druid 5 wolves

tele druid 1 bear

is 5 wolf vs nec a 5-0 for the druid? what is the result in 1 wolf and 1 bear setups?
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#130
Dec 27 2017 04:35pm
Quote (rudipk @ Dec 27 2017 11:30pm)
Not every build, but the rules are in place to give every class an as equal as possible chance to win.


Right, well I've had my fill of rule discussions. Go with whatever you all feel best.

I understand what you are trying to achieve but all of this talk has pretty much zapped my interest in D2 for the foreseeable future.
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