I think 18 was never *really* designed to be a balanced bracket, I don't think 30 was either but it just turned out that it was.
However the discrepencies between various builds at 18 are so large that not compensating for them seems unfair on the underdog builds.
This said, it doesn't mean level your chars till they pwn all.

Dammit I'm in essay writing mode so I sound like a computer.

Roy and I just had a conversation about this the other day. This can be argued, but I feel as if fire res is the most easily obtainable res to get on a 18 next to psn as far as casters go. Me personally I try to avoid ayna's on all my duelers and stack without it to just eliminate the possibility of even having it kick it. dex/30 res jewels and base on gear makes it very simple to get 75 fire. Which on east if normally what you see the most of be it from a fissure, sin or in my case fber.

Might aswell forget all of the usual lvls and go for the level you want. 9-30lvls being lld 31-49 being mld
due wuthl thouse who agree to duel with you. its for the fun anyways. though, that way there would be no tournaments as ppls levels varie too much.

We can always give it a try if this lld community agrees. It will b more than enough since the tvts/tours/ladders are almost 100% from ppl that use to check this forum. We just n to be open minded and give it a try. Who wouldnt like to see more variety of chars at "18"? I personally love uncommon builds (almost all my 18s are silly chars like shiver armor sorc with static/fw and a bow/throw pala like pud).
Btw if we test and balance it properly, non jsp lld'rs might be sent here to check that new lld improvement.

in no way will the 18 bracket be balanced - physical characters reign supreme, but semi-obscure builds like fb/fissure/trapper/psy hammerlol are very solid in tvts



yeah, lightning-based chars are extremely limited (basically cs/lb zons), so its all fire chars which is like you said, easy to stack. personally, if you have 75% fire resist its fair game, but constant s/eing in a 1v1 is kind of lame for anyas. tvt i can def understand because i know how game changing a char like Shinra can be, as your opponents cannot stick together and it forces more 1v1 situations which given a proper team makeup can cause lopsided duel results



i too love uncommon builds - although i'm primarily known for Vanquish, ive always tried to make obscure or uncommon builds, and now that i sold off a lot of my HLD rotting gear i have the funds to do so.

still, to alter the level to make "certain" builds viable will virtually require a 100% vote from the community. if this occurs - im all for it, because id be one of the first to make a few of the underpowered builds more viable, especially in a tvt setting

I understand your concerns. Why dont you test different levels with us in open. All im asking is that people have an open mind because as i have said before, people had an open mind to change the status quoe to strictly 18 once before. Change can sometimes be good but i wouldnt propose any harsh changes until they are rigorously tested in a controlled setting with lots of valid input from others

in reply to this; this is true, but theres a difference between said "solidarity" in TvTs and being a good character.
The people who invest all the fg and time into these characters deserve more than to just be a place filler in a physical damage based battle.

well thats what i alluded to later; i spent a fuckload on my fissure and he is very critical in a tvt setting - as are other chars. even cheaper chars like bf/kick/trap hybrids can wreck havoc in tvt settings



i mean, i can already name things off the top of my head that would be subject to level increases:

-all sorcs
-cs/lb zon
-mauler


list can easily go on

lvl 19 would make my fber gozu chant buffer for tvt. wack wack bang pow!

Yeah I am with u. I just think that 18 needs a mini "extension" for certain builds like vlld had. Idk but I guess that when they were first established the vlld-lld brackets it only were 9 18 and 30. Then vlld players found out there were few other builds with nice stuff that failed hard against the other ones (aka casters). In that moment they made the 9-12 extension for vlld and it just improved that bracket. We need a new patch for that "18" imo. I would b really happy if everyone could agree.

The point isn't to make weaker builds strong enough to pwn the others, it will be just to make them strong enough to be taken seriously. They will still lose to cookie cutters but at least will b fun to use and worth a try. I almost deleted my cs/bow zon a few times. Was really frustrating rmking her and thinking in every possible way to make it stronger enough to duel others, but failing. Apart from pubs she couldnt kill almost anything apart another 18 cs zon I met lol. Was like a joke seeing necs not even moving to kill me or zealers not even losing 1/4 of life or not going to heal to duel me again. Today I lvl'd her to 20 and for the first time I enjoyed dueling minifoots chars. I still got pk'd but at least he had to run with the nec and was bit forced to use some resi on the pala (aka he took the cs as a real char) He also had fun dueling her for the first time, coz we all know that ez duels are kinda boring.

The cs example can be applied to shappers and maybe sorcs (dunno about them tho since never made one but to me sorc > cs or shaper since it's ranged, but still have the very low dmg issue). If this could be agreed Im 100% sure lld will gain more popularity at least in that community coz tell me, who wouldn't like to try a shaper or something knowing fg wont be wasted?

ps: rofl what a wall of text

e/corrected few grammar mistakes xD

This post was edited by SirEdwards on May 20 2010 06:09pm