I was quoted $500 to replace my top radiator hose + change out my pump fluid from Honda. It literally took me an hour to do both in my driveway in the snow and cost me $20 in pump fluid, $20 in coolant, and a $10 radiator hose.

I finally have time to address this. First off, you can think whatever you want of me. I really don't give a fuck what you think I know or don't know, what my experiences are or aren't. I've been around the automotive and motorcycle industry my entire life and I'm not a jiffy lube oil replacement engineer. You are the biggest hypocrite I have seen post here in a very long time. Everything I say is hearsay, yet everything you say is truth. You say I haven't supported any of my claims. Neither have you. Not one. I read through the first page and a half again and some of the stuff you said is true. You should really go back and read it again. The original argument was about the parts department. You agreed that the service prices are high as fuck. I don't know how things work in Canada but I CAN tell you how things work here. Independent shops do not use OEM parts unless it is a part that they cannot get through their commercial account at a parts store, or the OEM part is known to be of far superior quality. The customer can request OEM parts if they want and they can pay for it. Several of the biggest manufacturer's OEM parts are sold through independent retailers at much more reasonable prices than they are through the parts department of a dealership. It's the same equipment. In other cases the cheaper aftermarket parts are actually the same exact part. Many of the aftermarket parts aren't even copies. That company is actually producing the part and supplies it to the OEM. After X years their contract allows them to sell that part under their own brand. Dorman has a bunch of stuff like that. Their parts are 1/3 the cost or less compared to OEM from a dealership and they are popped out of the same mold. Blindly buying ALL of your parts from a dealership is like putting premium fuel in a car that requires regular. You either bought in to hype, are to ignorant to understand what is going on, or CHOOSE to spend more money unnecessarily.

From my point of view which is that of someone that does ALL of their own service and maintenance paying dealership prices for parts or service is a GUARANTEED rip off. The little summary I posted a few pages back laid it down pretty clearly imo. An independent shop may or may not fuck you over. That is a risk you take just like anything else. Going to a stealership for service a is a guaranteed rip off from a pricing stand point and the quality of workmanship isn't necessarily any better. You have alternative resources for recourse with a dealership if that workmanship is bad. You also get all of your warranty work done at a dealership. That's it. There aren't any other benefits. I think I said the dealership is useless AFTER your warranty runs out twice.

As for the people that have posted in this thread, none of them are my buddies. We are regular posters in this forum but they aren't going to blindly take my side on anything. Nearly everyone that has posted in this thread has disagreed with you or at the very least posted a personal experience (not the hearsay you claim my experience is) where a dealership charged or quoted them an extremely inflated price. There are 2 ex-dealership techs from the largest Asian brands that you ignored. Both of them no longer work at the dealership, one got wise to them ripping people off and the other posted his clear opinion of the pros and cons of using one. Those are 2 random guys that happened to read this thread. Your interpretation of the average dealership being run by Jesus himself is something I have not run across. Not even once bro, not even once.

As I said earlier, if you want to keep paying hundreds or thousands of dollars extra for piece of mind be my guest. That is your prerogative. I'll keep working on my own stuff, ordering my parts online. Respect that and get the fuck out of here. If you need any automotive advice don't PM me. Take your car to the dealership. They will gladly charge you $120/hr for diagnostics.

You clearly do give a fuck because you keep telling me how much you know and how informed you are.

None of this is arguments against why there are reasons to take a car to a dealership. It's just a regurgitation of what you've said in the ret of the thread.

I'm not using personal experience to justify my argument. You are. I have you valid reasons that don't need anecdotal evidence to back it up. All your arguments require that. I'm not going back and looking at my arguments when you haven't addressed them. Give reasons why they're wrong, not just tell me I'm wrong and how you know so much more then me. Independent shops do buy parts from the dealership, I don't care if they don't buy all their parts from the dealership, the point is they do. Independent shops that NEVER buy from the dealership are likely not doing so not because they don't want to (you even admit there's parts that a dealership has that you can't get elsewhere), but because they cannot. A part that is supplied to OEM is by definition not aftermarket. If it is a part supplied to OEM, it is OEM. Some aftermarket will brand their parts as OEM when in fact they are only produced "to OEM standards". Some aftermarket is high quality and almost as good if not as good as OEM. Some aftermarket is garbage. You're trying to claim I'm making an argument I'm not. I didn't say you should always buy OEM parts from dealership. There are clearly times where putting in an OEM part isn't worth it. Older cars this is especially true.

You can't compare doing your own work to getting it done at the dealership. It's simply a completely unrelated comparison. Most people don't and do not know how to do regular servicing of their own cars. How many women do you know even know how to change a tire? If you're looking at dealerships versus independent mechanics, brining in anything about doing work yourself is completely irrelevant. It's your opinion that going to a dealership is a ripoff. I gave plenty of reason's why it not, arguments you still refuse to address.

Why can't you address that a dealership knows how to work on a newer car better than an independent shop? Why can't you address that no independent shop will ever match the diagnostic ability of a dealership (brand specific scan tools are NOT available to independent mechanics. Even speciality shops will still use a general scan tool). You can't address that if you have rapport with a dealership, they will help you out. Have something major happen to your car and it's not under warranty, but you consistently took your car to the dealership? The manufacturer is much more likely to help you out. Blow an engine, transmission, or something else very expensive and you have always taken your car to the dealership, there's a good chance they'll pay it even if it's not covered by warranty anymore. I don't know for other companies, but I know Audi and VW have 12 year rust warranties.

Have a history with the dealership, and the dealership will fight to have your claim covered. Never seen them before, and they don't care. Why should they help someone who doesn't spend any money? There's also the fact it's a lot easier to trust a random dealership than a random independent mechanic. You make it sound like it's so easy to find a good one, when it's not. To find a good one, you have to either have recommendations, or through trial and error. The risk is higher with independent shops, you keep glossing over that as if it's a rip off. Just like every 5 Star restaurant will have people who think it's disgusting, every highly ranked dealership and independent shop will have people who have a problem with it. The bigger independent shops tend to have labour rates approaching dealership territory. What's worse, spending more money or having to spend a lesser amount of money multiple times? Some people don't want to take that risk. Just as there's nothing wrong with a person who wants to take that risk to find an independent shop that is good.

My dealership has $108/hour labour rate. I pay $86/hour (20% off, it's what other dealerships or independent shops would pay if they brought their car in they couldn't fix, also what friends/family pay), and don't pay for diagnostics, tire changes, and alignments. The shop I take my older car to has a $70/hour labour rate. 16 bucks isn't much difference. Not the same for everyone, but rapport with a dealer can get you that. Unlike you, I can admit when my personal experience runs out.

They are your buddies. This particular sub-forum is notorious for siding with regulars over people who aren't. Even if the regular makes a stupid comment. Case in point in the luxury car thread, dumbass makes a comment that Acura isn't a luxury brand and you have people jumping to defend him even though that claim is objectively false. And people in this forum tend to be people who do their own work, and of course would think that dealerships are overpriced. They're overpriced to you and them, not to everyone. A person who pays a dealership price isn't an idiot, they're making a rational and logical choice. You're the one who isn't respecting that. I respect people who take their cars to independents and do their own work. I don't respect the absurd argument that any person who pays a dealership price is a fool. The only fool is the person who thinks they're better than someone when having no knowledge of their reasons or motivations.

And for the record, why the fuck would I PM you for automotive advice If I need advice I'll ask someone who I actually trust, not some condescending asshole on a Diablo II forum.

E: If someone calls this a rage essay, just pretend I've already told you to put your helmet back on and start taking your medicine again.

This post was edited by Caedus on Dec 15 2014 12:02pm

You're Canadian. Your opinion is irrelevant.

Jesus Christ let it go, you do this in every topic.... your long winded bullshit is tiresome.

Ualrightbro

Why the fuck should I? And then have the same fool in another thread bring the same shit in again. "You were wrong just like you were last time."

Have an argument, don't assume the other person is a "fool" and an idiot for having a different opinion. Respect someone's opinion or don't. If you don't, either don't say anything or be ready to have shit piled on you. If you called someone a fool for expressing an opinion in a subjective debate in the real world, you'd get screamed at or worse. I really don't care what people think of me, so I don't care. I'll be civil if the other person is civil. I'll call you the fuck out if you don't want to me. Two can play that game. Deal with it or change your behavior.

I just saw this post and came to realize hes a troll. Let it go, let it goo

I just read his initial reply in this thread.. gotta say hes a moron.. ovepaying for your service is worth free alignments/details i guess....

This post was edited by TG3 on Dec 15 2014 01:19pm

youre posting as if youre going to change people opinion.

none of my cars go to dealerships, i do the work my self. plain and simple. i would never pay some one to do what i can on my own.


also, i dont care that your friend owns an audi dealership, you perception of how dealerships and service departments, and also regular mechanic shops is fucked.

I don't care about changing people's opinions. I've told you that plenty of times.

That's fine you do all your own work. I said that. I said it's fine if you never take your car to the dealership. What's not fine is thinking someone is stupid or a fool to not have the same opinion as you. This is subjective, there is no "correct" method to fix your car. You do what you think is best for you. If that's the dealership, there's nothing wrong with that. There's pros and cons to going there. If that's an independent shop, there's nothing wrong with that. There's pros and cons to doing that too. It's a choice, not a right or wrong answer. I've said this all from the start, but I guess it's easier to just assume I'm saying you're an idiot if you never take your car to the dealership.

Why is my perception "fucked". Because it's not the same as yours, because it doesn't conform with the typical car enthusiasts perception? There are plenty of independent shops that are out there to bend people over and squeeze as much money out of them as they can. There's dealerships like that. Doesn't mean they're all like that, but if you're going to treat dealerships with that sentiment you can't have double standards and think that it's only a "few" bad apples in independent shops that do that. Why is the view that every dealership is out to gouge you (on purpose) not a fucked view? Someone's view is not "fucked" because it's different from yours. You don't know the context someone else is it, you don't know their experience, you don't know what they think they know. My view is subjective, just like yours is. Based on your values, your desires, what you think is important.



If I wanted to troll you your face would have exploded by now.

This post was edited by Caedus on Dec 15 2014 01:37pm