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Feb 27 2012 02:28pm
Quote (FMX_89 @ Feb 26 2012 06:49pm)
Please point out what part of my post required any Googling?  I responded to everything you said with my own answers.  Now to the fun stuff...




Herp a derp.  How are you an engine builder that runs a machine shop and you don't know who Tony Mamo is?  He is one of the lead designers at AFR.  He is the guy that designed the ports for most of their LS stuff.  That's like not knowing who Bill Jenkins is and building big blocks.


Secondly, My patriot heads are LS6 head castings that have been CNC machined by Patriot.  Completely assembled with their good dual springs and stainless valves with titanium retainers they are $1300.  They flow 300 cfm @.600 right out of the box.  The spring kit is right at $300 retail.  A set of GMPP ported LS6 heads are the same price with single beehive springs and they flow less.  I know what power the car made then and for $1300 it was money well spent.  It doesn't matter anymore as those heads are sold and my AFR 225's are on the new short block.


Cam lift doesn't mean nothing.  It is important.  Duration is a much better indicator of the size of the cam.  Most of the time guys that just quote lift numbers have no fucking clue how to spec a cam or how the damn thing works.  I gave an example of what I was saying.  It is not hard to understand.  The first theoretical cam I talked about would be a barely noticeable daily driver cam in a stock cube motor whereas the second cam would sound like a race car and be near the max size you could fit without PTV issues under stock heads.  2 completely different cams for completely different uses but the lift is the same.


What's the name of your machine shop?  I'll call Fraser Semple at Automotive Engine Specialties and ask him if he has ever heard of you.  AES built my 390.  Tony Mamo from AFR ported the heads.  Ed Curtis from Flowtech Induction specced the cam.  I assembled it.  Since you haven't given any information on anything you own, not even a brand name, I'll give you mine while we are here.

GM cast the block

Callies forged the crank

Callies forged the rods

CP-Carillo forged and CNC'd the pistons

Wiseco cast and cut the rings

Clevite machined the bearings

Calico coated everything

AFR cast and CNC'd the heads, Tony Mamo hand ported them

GM built the rockers

Morel made the lifters

Manton made the pushrods

PAC built the springs


So again, please show me why I should pull this engine out in favor of a jank ass 355 like yours?  If you give me a good reason I might call your shop and put one on the debit card.


I laugh at your rambling to make yourself know what the fuck you are talking about to these idiots who don't know a damn thing. You may know more than the average honda moron on here but you ramble and assume too much. and when did I even say that 355 was in my truck? Oh wait I didn't Lol. So keep assuming shit you obviously can't even comprehend. the smallblock in my truck is well over 400 ci. you claim cnc ported then "Tony Mamo" hand ported them? listen to yourself. I don't give a flying fuck how famous he is that doesn't mean a fucking thing. Btw idiot Tony Mamo died in 2008 so how could he magically do your port work at 98 even if he was alive when he did it? keep bullshitting your way on here you moron, you don't fool me. You couldn't even build an engine yourself let alone read a bore gauge or micrometer. I'm a 5th generation machinist and engine builder. get good I was playing with engines when you were playin with play school.

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Feb 27 2012 02:32pm
Page 13 of 12? wtf????
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Feb 27 2012 02:33pm
Quote (Wydz @ Feb 27 2012 03:02pm)
oh lawd, so much slam in one post


know what's funny? he bullshits people on here but not someone who actually knows better.

Btw FMX you retard. lift doesn't matter? so without lift the valves don't even open enough to let enough air/fuel in and let exhaust out regardless of the duration. With duration the valves may stay open longer but without lift you don't make shit for power because it doesn't really flow. You can bullshit your way on here with your flow bench numbers but it doesn't mean dick to me.

awww I saw fmx then he ran. I'm onto your bullshit buddy.

and another thing just looked at the pics of your LS1. Those lifters and pushrods look pretty stock to me. haha

This post was edited by BassTracker6925 on Feb 27 2012 02:43pm
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Feb 27 2012 02:54pm
Quote (BassTracker6925 @ Feb 27 2012 03:28pm)
I laugh at your rambling to make yourself know what the fuck you are talking about to these idiots who don't know a damn thing. You may know more than the average honda moron on here but you ramble and assume too much. and when did I even say that 355 was in my truck? Oh wait I didn't Lol. So keep assuming shit you obviously can't even comprehend. the smallblock in my truck is well over 400 ci. you claim cnc ported then "Tony Mamo" hand ported them? listen to yourself. I don't give a flying fuck how famous he is that doesn't mean a fucking thing. Btw idiot Tony Mamo died in 2008 so how could he magically do your port work at 98 even if he was alive when he did it? keep bullshitting your way on here you moron, you don't fool me. You couldn't even build an engine yourself let alone read a bore gauge or micrometer. I'm a 5th generation machinist and engine builder. get good I was playing with engines when you were playin with play school.



In the PM you sent me you said "My 355." That led me to believe you had a 355 in your truck. Then you go on about 305 heads flowing more than ported LS6 heads which is garbage. I've posted nothing but facts. You have posted nothing at all.


All AFR heads are CNC ported. After the CNC job Tony will hand blend the valve pockets, do some bowl work, smooth out transitions, and open up the exhaust side a bit. Tony Mamo is the R&D/Product Design Manager at Air Flow Research. He didn't die in 2008. I talked to him on his cell phone not even a month ago. According to his LS1tech profile his last activity on the site was at 11:51 AM this morning. You tell me I need to keep reading google, I think you should read some more accurate Google obituaries. Here is his profile:


http://ls1tech.com/forums/member.php?u=19308


You must not deal with many high quality aftermarket head castings if you don't know who Tony Mamo is.




Quote (BassTracker6925 @ Feb 27 2012 03:33pm)
know what's funny? he bullshits people on here but not someone who actually knows better.

Btw FMX you retard. lift doesn't matter? so without lift the valves don't even open enough to let enough air/fuel in and let exhaust out regardless of the duration. With duration the valves may stay open longer but without lift you don't make shit for power because it doesn't really flow. You can bullshit your way on here with your flow bench numbers but it doesn't mean dick to me.



I'm not bullshitting anyone. Please go back through my posts and pull out anything I said that is inaccurate. You won't find anything unless you harp on an estimation or guess which is just that, an estimation.


Secondly, you are the one discrediting duration. I never discredited lift. I actually said it was important the last time I mentioned it. What I was saying which you still don't seem to understand is that the lift of the cam tells me nothing about how large or small it actually is. I gave examples. 2 cams, same lift, different duration and LSA, completely different sizes and uses.


If the heads drop off in flow after .600" lift there is marginal benefit from running .700" lift. On that same set of heads, add 10 degrees of duration and lower the LSA by 2 without going over .600" lift and you will see a big gain. If you are an engine builder you wouldn't be using lift alone as an indicator of cam size. That's all I was saying. I mean, it's possible. Then again I've met some $16 an hour machinists at local shops that could cam spec their way out of a paper bag. If it doesn't go in a Gen I SBC and Comp doesn't have it on their master list you won't see it in their shop. They are hacks.



I'll be making around 1200bhp through those AFR 225's. Guess what, the lift on my cam is only .615" int/ .628" exhaust. It's a turbo engine, but the point is the same. My heads are optimized for low and mid lift flow where the valve spends most of it's time. That makes for smooth even power.





EDIT:

Quote (BassTracker6925 @ Feb 27 2012 03:33pm)
know what's funny? he bullshits people on here but not someone who actually knows better.

Btw FMX you retard. lift doesn't matter? so without lift the valves don't even open enough to let enough air/fuel in and let exhaust out regardless of the duration. With duration the valves may stay open longer but without lift you don't make shit for power because it doesn't really flow. You can bullshit your way on here with your flow bench numbers but it doesn't mean dick to me.

awww I saw fmx then he ran. I'm onto your bullshit buddy.

and another thing just looked at the pics of your LS1. Those lifters and pushrods look pretty stock to me. haha




Once again, what bullshit? I've posted none.


The pictures in my profile are of my old heads and cam setup on my stock bottom end LS1. You don't know dick do you? Those are Comp hardened 7.400" pushrods and LS7 lifters. I had no reason to be running Mantons and Morels then. It "only" made 450whp.

This post was edited by FMX_89 on Feb 27 2012 02:56pm
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Feb 27 2012 03:02pm
Quote (FMX_89 @ Feb 27 2012 03:54pm)
In the PM you sent me you said "My 355."  That led me to believe you had a 355 in your truck.  Then you go on about 305 heads flowing more than ported LS6 heads which is garbage.  I've posted nothing but facts.  You have posted nothing at all.


All AFR heads are CNC ported.  After the CNC job Tony will hand blend the valve pockets, do some bowl work, smooth out transitions, and open up the exhaust side a bit.  Tony Mamo is the R&D/Product Design Manager at Air Flow Research.  He didn't die in 2008.  I talked to him on his cell phone not even a month ago.  According to his LS1tech profile his last activity on the site was at 11:51 AM this morning.  You tell me I need to keep reading google, I think you should read some more accurate Google obituaries.  Here is his profile:


http://ls1tech.com/forums/member.php?u=19308


You must not deal with many high quality aftermarket head castings if you don't know who Tony Mamo is.







I'm not bullshitting anyone.  Please go back through my posts and pull out anything I said that is inaccurate.  You won't find anything unless you harp on an estimation or guess which is just that, an estimation.


Secondly, you are the one discrediting duration.  I never discredited lift.  I actually said it was important the last time I mentioned it.  What I was saying which you still don't seem to understand is that the lift of the cam tells me nothing about how large or small it actually is.  I gave examples.  2 cams, same lift, different duration and LSA, completely different sizes and uses.


If the heads drop off in flow after .600" lift there is marginal benefit from running .700" lift.  On that same set of heads, add 10 degrees of duration and lower the LSA by 2 without going over .600" lift and you will see a big gain.  If you are an engine builder you wouldn't be using lift alone as an indicator of cam size.  That's all I was saying.  I mean, it's possible.  Then again I've met some $16 an hour machinists at local shops that could cam spec their way out of a paper bag.  If it doesn't go in a Gen I SBC and Comp doesn't have it on their master list you won't see it in their shop.  They are hacks.



I'll be making around 1200bhp through those AFR 225's.  Guess what, the lift on my cam is only .615" int/ .628" exhaust.  It's a turbo engine, but the point is the same.  My heads are optimized for low and mid lift flow where the valve spends most of it's time.  That makes for smooth even power.


Lol he died in 2008 @ 98. end of story. amazing Lol thing is though man. I don't really care how much power you think you can make I do machine work for the dragster that beat new england speedways record. You pay for labor I pay for parts I can go above and beyond you with little effort. I do everything in house at my shop. and honestly man are you tryin to brag about 1200 with a turbo? really? I know people who do that with 6 lbs. I built a blown supercharged 426 hemi for a good friend some years ago... It run's 6 seconds with 9 lbs. and you said how many cc heads? 57? with boost? what are you running for a piston because if you boosted that you are asking for detonation... aka your whole fucking motor would come apart. Boost will tear that fucker up with 57 cc heads especially you racing it.

and btw... I don't deal with high quality aftermarket heads? what makes it high quality? what it tells you on the box? Lol when I'm building a race application most of the time I buy a set of BLANKS, but you knew that cuz you know it all. Like I said keep assuming shit just like you assumed shit in the pm you just sent me and I laughed some more.

This post was edited by BassTracker6925 on Feb 27 2012 03:08pm
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Feb 27 2012 03:26pm
Quote (BassTracker6925 @ Feb 27 2012 04:02pm)
Lol he died in 2008 @ 98. end of story. amazing Lol thing is though man. I don't really care how much power you think you can make I do machine work for the dragster that beat new england speedways record. You pay for labor I pay for parts I can go above and beyond you with little effort. I do everything in house at my shop. and honestly man are you tryin to brag about 1200 with a turbo? really? I know people who do that with 6 lbs. I built a blown supercharged 426 hemi for a good friend some years ago... It run's 6 seconds with 9 lbs. and you said how many cc heads? 57? with boost? what are you running for a piston because if you boosted that you are asking for detonation... aka your whole fucking motor would come apart. Boost will tear that fucker up with 57 cc heads especially you racing it.

and btw... I don't deal with high quality aftermarket heads? what makes it high quality? what it tells you on the box? Lol when I'm building a race application most of the time I buy a set of BLANKS, but you knew that cuz you know it all. Like I said keep assuming shit just like you assumed shit in the pm you just sent me and I laughed some more.




That's not the end of the story. Please give Tony a call. I'm sure he will be glad to inform you that he is around 50 years younger than whoever you are talking about. Here is his phone number at AFR: 661 257-8124. I can't believe I'm having to convince you that Tony is alive... Lol.


I'm not building a dragster. I've paid less than $1500 for labor in my build. That was machine work, short block assembly and head porting. I don't do this for a living. How would it be cost effective for me to spend tens of thousands of dollars on equipment to do that work myself? It isn't. Not unless you are porting heads with a Dremel.


I see plenty of big blocks that make 1200hp N/A. They are also worth more than my entire build. This is a street car running a production GM 4 bolt block, AFR heads, and a hydraulic roller cam. It's a street car. A 426 hemi running in the 6's on 9lbs is probably in a rail which weighs what? 2000lbs with 13.5" slicks? I don't give 2 fucks about something like that.

My old patriot heads were 59cc. That was right around 11.2:1 with factory flat top pistons. It ran fine on pump 93.


My new heads are 62cc. The CP pistons have a 15cc dish. It's right around 10:1. I'll be running E-85. Don't try to tell me anything about my car, engine, or how it will run. I know exactly what I'm doing and I don't need a blubbering idiot like you to give me input.



Blanks? As in you buy a chunk of billet and machine the head yourself? What are you doing on JSP? You should be running your mulit million dollar business.

If by blank you mean an as cast head that is yet to be ported then someone had to cast the head. They didn't design and cast themselves. You may do all of the port work but it is still designed and cast by someone.
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Feb 27 2012 03:32pm
Quote (FMX_89 @ Feb 27 2012 04:26pm)
That's not the end of the story.  Please give Tony a call.  I'm sure he will be glad to inform you that he is around 50 years younger than whoever you are talking about.  Here is his phone number at AFR: 661 257-8124.  I can't believe I'm having to convince you that Tony is alive... Lol.


I'm not building a dragster.  I've paid less than $1500 for labor in my build.  That was machine work, short block assembly and head porting.  I don't do this for a living.  How would it be cost effective for me to spend tens of thousands of dollars on equipment to do that work myself?  It isn't.  Not unless you are porting heads with a Dremel.


I see plenty of big blocks that make 1200hp N/A.  They are also worth more than my entire build.  This is a street car running a production GM 4 bolt block, AFR heads, and a hydraulic roller cam.  It's a street car.  A 426 hemi running in the 6's on 9lbs is probably in a rail which weighs what? 2000lbs with 13.5" slicks?  I don't give 2 fucks about something like that.

My old patriot heads were 59cc.  That was right around 11.2:1 with factory flat top pistons.  It ran fine on pump 93.


My new heads are 62cc.  The CP pistons have a 15cc dish.  It's right around 10:1.  I'll be running E-85.  Don't try to tell me anything about my car, engine, or how it will run.  I know exactly what I'm doing and I don't need a blubbering idiot like you to give me input.



Blanks?  As in you buy a chunk of billet and machine the head yourself?  What are you doing on JSP?  You should be running your mulit million dollar business.

If by blank you mean an as cast head that is yet to be ported then someone had to cast the head.  They didn't design and cast themselves.  You may do all of the port work but it is still designed and cast by someone.


Lol you obviously don't to be running 10:1 with boost. You make me laugh

and didnt you talk some shit about how you dont need high compression to make power? so why you running a turbo then?

This post was edited by BassTracker6925 on Feb 27 2012 03:33pm
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Feb 27 2012 03:33pm
Quote (BassTracker6925 @ Feb 27 2012 04:32pm)
Lol you obviously don't to be running 10:1 with boost. You make me laugh




You obviously don't build fuel injected or forced induction race engines. 9.5:1 to 10.5:1 is ideal for E-85. Idiot.
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Feb 27 2012 03:33pm
Quote (FMX_89 @ Feb 27 2012 04:33pm)
You obviously don't build fuel injected or forced induction race engines.  9.5:1 to 10.5:1 is ideal for E-85.  Idiot.


Lol ideal for how much boost? 4 lbs?
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Feb 27 2012 03:35pm
Quote (BassTracker6925 @ Feb 27 2012 04:33pm)
Lol ideal for how much boost? 4 lbs?


according to you, you don't need alot, you can have a 8 second car running 9 lbs.
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