Quote (Killerme99 @ Nov 11 2014 05:08pm)
@Bold #1...they are extremely expensive compared to a standard automatic.
@Bold #2... again a vague generalization that is not true.
@Bold #3... /facepalm... transmissions need to be replaced quite often without excess abuse... its pretty obvious you are trolling at this point.
@Bold #4... $10,000 difference on the cost of an engine could make a HUGE determining factor in whether I buy a certain car or not.
@Bold #5... now I know you are trolling... all these makers that you mention that offer a DCT or similar transmission have some of the worst reliability in the business. It is rare for one of their engines or transmission to make it past 200K miles without needing major overhaul let alone 500k.
Do us a favor and go read a book or do something constructive with the rest of your day.
1) No they're fucking not. Give evidence to support your bullshit numbers or get the fuck out. VW switched their automatics to DSG only awhile ago, and the prices didn't skyrocket. Before the switch, an automatic was $2000 more than a manual. After the switch, a DSG is $2000 more than a manual. I don't care that a DCT in a Lamborghini or Ferrari is extremely expensive, a manual in a Lamborghini or Ferrari is also extremely expensive.
2) Says who? Says you? Parts are more expensive in expensive cars. That's so obviously true it's a truism. I don't care about a shitty Acura or Lexus which uses identical parts to its lower costs counterparts. An expensive car will use expensive parts.
3) Your average car owner will NEVER replace a transmission in the lifetime of their car. I don't care that someone who only buys used, who abuses their car, and keeps it till its 10+ years old needs to. Your average car owner keeps a car for 6.5 years. If you have to replace a tranny before 6 1/2 years, you abused your car, or were driving an much higher than typical length. Most people put 20,000-40,000 Ks on their car a year. You shouldn't have to replace your transmission at 240,000 Ks (6 years of 40,000 kilometres a year).
4) That's you. The vast majority of people who buy a car will not look at the individual pricing of the parts contained within the car unless it's something special like a hybrid/electric car (in that case you'll want to know the price of the battery) or a car with high-end parts like carbon ceramic brakes that need often replacing. Just like with a transmission, the vast majority of people who own a car will never have to replace an engine.
5) Anyone who cites reliability studies doesn't know what they're talking about. Go look at the raw numbers behind those studies. You'll find out the difference in reported issues between the most reliable brand, and the least reliable brand, are not significant. 5-10% differences in reliability at most. And your point is wrong. Porsche and Audi are two car makers that exclusively use DCTs for their automatics, and both are top ten in the majority of reliability studies (Audi is top 5). And you're a fucking idiot, I'm not talking about miles, I'm using kilometres (like the rest of the world does). 200,000 milese is over 320,000 KMs. Significantly more than 200,000 KMs. Anytime you get a car that high, you run the risk of needing something major replaced. It doesn't matter the brand, every company will have cars that make it past that, and others who don't. I know someone with a TDI Jetta with over 600,000 KMs on his original drivetrain (original tranny and engine). It's rare for someone to have their tranny or engine reach 320,000 Ks? Load of shit, back up your claims.
Do me a favour and actually understand what the fuck you're talking about before you reply. All I see is a GM fanboy rejecting something that GM can't do well.
Quote (FMX_89 @ Nov 11 2014 04:14pm)
You can stop making generalizations already. A lot of them have been wrong. I really don't feel like going through it all. You are clearly disconnected from the rest of us and you are incapable of seeing this from another perspective.
Part of the reason a C6 Z06 can outperform the cars it does at the low comparative cost is the T56 and later TR6060. GM is the master of parts interchangeability. The same transmissions are used in all similar models. Those are great transmissions used by multiple manufacturers and they are very inexpensive. A $6000 (when the price comes down)DCT option would benefit some people. Here we are again though... not everyone would want it. I'd go so far as to say most people wouldn't.
You won't see DCTs replace torque converter autos in pickups anytime soon. The current gen of autos are serviceless. They are sealed for life. Show me a DCT that lasts 200k. Torque converters are great for some things.
You were making generalizations. Remember your Corvette comment? And why are my generalizations wrong, because you said so? That's not how this works. You seem incapable from seeing this from an objective perspectives. I like manuals, I think they're significantly more fun to drive than automatics. Doesn't mean I'm going to ignore the evidence that suggests they're disappearing.
Every company has people who say they are the "masters of parts interchangeability". What's so great or special about using the same transmission in multiple cars? Good for GM, who keeps costs down for a company that has been struggling the since 2008, but why does it matter for the consumer?
DCTs have already replaced automatics in many cars, not just expensive sports cars. No such thing as a VW or Audi with just a regular automatic anymore. All come with manual standard, and DSG optional. And the option is $6000 more, it's $1500-2000 in most cases, pretty typical for manual to automatic price differences. A DCT is better than an regular automatic, which is why automakers have already made the switch.