The basic physics and mechanics of everything is the same. Im not worried about anything really. Just because its my first time on a modern car, doesnt mean i cant use previous knowledge to tune it lol.

I had to do almost everything on my spirit manually and everything on my big block charger manually.. having a computer that does everything will be a hell of a lot easier. Will just take getting use to hitting a button vs physically modifying something. lol


This post was edited by TURBO_DODGE on Jan 29 2015 10:18pm

Yeah....

Real tuning software is not that easy. Sure, setting the idle rpm vs ECT is straightforward. So is adjusting fan temps.

Setting up to tune in Lambda for PE, filling the VE histogram correctly, correcting MAF frequency, and adjusting injector profiling is not straightforward. Basically all of your fueling and air adjustments require a next level understanding of sensors and the logic that connects their functions. Getting the idle right at all temperatures takes time and plenty of experimentation. Modern EFI stuff is pretty smart. It can compensate for a lot but once you start changing cam specs the whole thing goes to hell in a handbasket.

You will need a wideband and a laptop with real tuning software to datalog and tune correctly. You can half ass it and make it run with the handheld, maybe.

You can half ass it with real tuning software too. EFI tuning is not something you do just because you can. You either pay a professional to do it or you commit to learning how to do it correctly. Anything else will give you subpar results and cost you more in the long run.

I have a zeitronix datalogger. Its what i tuned my spirit r/t with. I am assuming i can make it work with my car. At least that is what im planning on lol.

Obviously its not a tuner itself, just a logger, but its a nice one imo. Will make things easier for an actual tune.

I am not entirely concerned right now about it, ill worry more about that kind of stuff once i get the cam in my hands and ready/find time to install it.. hell i had the catch can and cai and dress up kit for 2 months.. took that long to find 2 hours of spare time just to put the shit in.. let a lone a whole weekend to spare on a cam job and tuning and tinkering lol.. work to god damn much these days <<

This post was edited by TURBO_DODGE on Jan 30 2015 12:34am

Unfortunately these are not LS motors.

Hence my build going back to carb on that big block... You can use a DS or Trinity to import tunes but its kinda like using the minimax on diesels.. Its okay but its not EFI

There is software out there but it is marketed at tuner shops. The 2 companies that support the Mopar stuff have successfully marketed their handheld tuners to the masses and kept the price of the real tuning software high enough that it is only sensible for pro tuners to buy them. Those guys can write all the tunes they want, and the masses can use their overpriced tune uploader to upload said tune themselves from across the country if need be. It's a lot like EFI Live and an autocal for the diesel trucks. The canned tunes that come on the handhelds are worthless after you do any real mods so you are left with an expensive USB stick of sorts.

Even the pro software doesn't touch EFI Live or HPTuners for GM vehicles. It's a shame you guys are hamstrung. At the end of the day it starts with the vehicle owners though. The demand for LSX Tuning software was high right from the beginning and several companies were started to fill that need. 18 years later they are established and only take on new projects that seem profitable. How many credits can they sell and how long is the development cycle for the ECU in question? Dodge has done you no favors in that department. On the GM side HPTuners usually has the new ECM's cracked before the first private owner receives one. GM sends them bench ECU's for testing just like the send out engines and heads to certain shops. I wish Dodge would get with the program because people are starting to do internal mods on these new Mopars more and more frequently.

We couldn't do the stuff we do with LSX's an make them drive on the street like they do if it wasn't for the great software. For comparisons sake, Diablo's CMR (pro tuning software) lists 200 parameters that can be changed. That's great, but HPTuner's has almost 500 variables just for 6L80E Trans tuning. This is honestly one of the main reasons I steer people away from new Mopars if they have the mod bug. Even Ford's version of SCT is a bit better.

This post was edited by FMX_89 on Jan 30 2015 11:17am

Nice.

I completely agree. It's hard to build a new fuel injected mopar. Of any size. For the heads and cam package guys out there that keep a stock bore and stroke. Its not a big deal. There is more than enough that you can change to get the car to run well. (well, not great) Same goes for the 5.7 to 6.4, 6.1 to 7.0 and 6.4 to 7.0 stroker kits. They are cookie cuttered out to work for the masses.

For a guy like me to do a fuel injected build you are talking around 5 grand to get tuning done professionally and you are still at the end of the day left with a box with some different tunes. Or, the alternative of going out and buying a professional grade software for 15-20k, buying a dyno or dyno time if you dont have access (which I do not in Texas) and then being able to learn the software because the mopar tuning is nowhere near as easy as EFI is. EFI is graceful and will help you along as you make changes to one specific thing whereas mopar tuners do not. I've worked with H&S, Smarty, EFI Live, and Edge and all of these are useable by someone with an in depth knowledge of a motor. I do have access to (insert name im not going to drop here)'s mopar tuning. I've looked at it and messed with it while I was at his shop and it's a nightmare. If you change one table or value, you damn well better know what else needs to be changed and how to make it work correctly. I'll be the first one to admit that I could not do it without tons of hours (and a few spare motors) to learn it.

I wanted to run a 448ci motor with EFI and a big single. Thats fine if you want to run 6psi. You can get a box tune. But for me, I have deep dished pistons, completely different heads, and shooting for 38psi when set on kill. To give you a rundown, I was ESTIMATED 120 hours of dyno and street time just to tune for that and have it still tame enough to run on the street. Then again it was a setup like nelson uses on his cars. Twin injectors per cylinder and two fuel tanks for 93 and 116. I understand theres a lot more that goes into a build like that but god damn.

Not bad @ 105 bucks an hour

Like I said, I'm not going to post their name but they are a VERY reputable shop all over the world. And they are close to me. aaand they went 200mph on the grand parkway with a c7.

Well that didn't give it away at all.

Honestly man at that point you should have been looking at a standalone system anyway. Holley Dominator EFI, Big Stuff III, Motec, etc. Keep the factory shit to run the rest of the car and the standalone for the engine. The learning curve is too steep to do it yourself but there are plenty of for hire experts that can get it going easily enough. On the LS stuff most guys go standalone over 1300-1400whp or if it is really a racecar. Our factory computers do not do 16 injector fueling or perform well over 7500rpm so there are limitations there as well.

But for the price of all of that i'm still better off running a blow through carb and keeping everything mechanical and just call it a damn race car and never street it lol.

I'm torn. I really only want one "Project car" but the price to do anything with a hemi is just retarded. You could build 2 lsx motors for the price of one hemi... I knew hemi tax was bad but I didnt think it was going to be this bad.

I guess i could sneak an lsx block in it, paint it orange, and put hemi valve covers on it... lol

BS3 runs about $4-5k after you but all of the add on modules you need. Motec is about the same or a little more and is less popular with domestic drag racers but is bigger with the super fast street car crowd.