You think the gap between the ECUs of 5 years ago and today are a huge bridge? Imagine the first guy that had to figure out how to tune an EFI car the year they came out.

I feel like the companies don't realize how large of a basis there is for aftermarket builds, on almost any car...

I'd just tear the fucking thing out and put a standalone in it if its that big of a deal.. Imagine they told you that you could not, under risk of persecution, continue working on your F-body..

I can't even, its actually frustrating me thinking about it.

You hit the nail on the head. I couldn't agree more.



There are a few people who have done it before the tuners came out on the 13+ trucks.

The total cost for a standalone operating system and the tuning and configuration to get it running was around 60,000 dollars. It's not just the ECU that needs to be changed. It's every other computer in the truck that co-exists with the ECU to make the vehicle run by it's pre-determined specs. Which is half of the truck.

This post was edited by jimmyhoud on Apr 22 2015 01:45pm

Should have specified, sorry. I didn't mean on a diesel.. Unless, what I'm hearing is its the same concept on newer cars too.

in any case, this law is superfluous and asinine.. There is nothing to be gained from this... If the OEs warranty is voided the second it is altered, who gives a shit?

Yes. I own 2 gen III GM PCMs, a gen IV GM ECU, and now a gen V GM ECU. The first guy to figure out efi tuning did not have a very steep learning curve because the maps and parameters were rudimentary and mimicked a carb. The Gen III PCMs I own have about 150 tables that can be changed. Many of them are adders and multipliers for other tables. It is pretty complicated. The Gen IV stuff has around 200 tables and another 300 parameters for the automatic transmissions. The TCM is inside the transmission, which is sealed for life. If you change the wrong tables or input incorrect values you can brick the TCM and your trans is scrap. The gen V ECU is completely different. It has nearly double the tables and works on a completely different architecture. In the past, power delivery was a function of TPS voltage, atmospheric sensors, and algorithms. Now when you press the throttle pedal you aren't commanding a linear TPS voltage. The ECU uses something called driver commanded torque. It reads how much torque you are requesting at any moment and filters that through a series of complicated tables that actually have equations in their cells instead of a basic xyz map.

The few guys that have figured out GEN V tuning and really understand it have engineering degrees and are at the top of their profession. These ECUs have been out almost 2 years and GM gave several shops development products before they were released. Even the companies coding the tuning software don't fully understand every table and how it interacts with others. Many are left invisible.

It's legos vs kinex vs building a circuit board blindfolded.



I still think we should be allowed to try. When people see how complicated they are they will choose not to change things. My silverado isn't getting tuned even though i have tuning software because the risks outweigh the rewards.

This post was edited by FMX_89 on Apr 22 2015 02:22pm

And to put this into perspective. GM actually has one of the EASIER ecu's to understand.

A modern 6.7L cummins can be broken down into two parts. Fuel, and Air. There are over 1800 parameters that go into the basic air/fuel "table" Things like throttle % vs actual %, Defueling, torque management (which requires a degree to understand in its own) along with a million other combinations of If this than that that play into how much fuel the motor gets and when and why it gets it. The early 6.7's I had that I tuned myself was just about unbearable to get right. I had more time on my dyno tuning the first 6.7L than I did tuning all of the 5.9Ls over the 6 years I pulled circuit. I also ran out of minuets on my cellphone's unlimited talk policy calling every one and their brother for a week during my trials and errors. Pretty sure if James at Rolling Smoke Diesel charged me for phone time i'd still be in debt today.

The days of hand held can tunes and professional tunes being close to the same price wise are LONG gone. Can tunes are getting more expensive due to the ammount of work it takes to create them but professional tuning is getting to be outrageous in price.

This all coming from the mopar/diesel side of things.

so youre saying i cant just do an eprom flash on a 2014 camarow what gives GM is a crap company wheres my odb at


but for real, i blew my trans ams 305 tpi cause i tried tuning it, motor lasted about 2 weeks on the chip, granted i was 17, but yolo

This post was edited by t9x on Apr 23 2015 06:23am

A 2014 camaro is Gen IV. Still very tunable but not as forgiving to flash the automatic if you don't know what you are doing. The gen V engines are the really complicated ones.

You'll never go to jail for working on your car in America. At the most you may void the warranty and not get repairs done for free by a dealership.

Already happens bruh

What did they do to their car that got them thrown in jail?