Well clearly if you think calling someone a pusher, especially a professional player, then you have given up your position of being reasonably knowledgeable. Either you aren't knowledgeable or you really have to get your facts sorted out. I was never trying to assert any knowledge onto anyone. If you clearly see the second post which you made you made the poor decision to make a poor post. I'm not the one that initiated anything. I merely made this thread to congratulate Mardy and just have a little discussion about his upcoming match against Novak. You're the one that didn't even realize Mardy is moving up a couple places on the ranking points.

Somebody is seriously upset that his tennis knowledge got called out.

Actually, you're the one with the poor knowledge.

I don't even know that much tennis, but I can easily tell Godest has a lot more knowledge than you dude. You did afterall start this by calling Fish who is a great player and now ranked either 11 or 12 a pusher which IS a fucked up thing to say especially about a pro. That isn't cool dude. Just cut it, you were in the wrong.

I'm with Godest here.

different definitions from different people..


i wouldn't quite call fish a pusher, but i would say that at times (and against much inferior players) he is not nearly aggressive enough to do his transition game justice

If you go by the correct definition of a pusher, the closest player I can think of in the top 200 that is extremely defensive is Devvarman. But even then, he doesn't fit the true definition of a pusher which only survives in the juniors IMO.

Yes, Mardy may play conservatively or defensive at times, especially against lower ranked opponents, but who doesn't? All the top 10 players do in order to conserve energy throughout a tournament. Why play your best tennis or most aggressive/energy consuming tennis when you can just let your lower ranked opponent beat themselves?

That is why sometimes some sets go close against players like Federer/Nadal even though on paper Federer/Nadal should destroy their opponents. Just get that essential break and hold on your serve.

good post, but it's hard to go defining things and then slapping labels. that's way too black and white, especially in a discussion about pushers. many players have pusher qualities, but i wouldn't say that necessarily makes them a pusher.

obviously most of the top players play slightly less aggressively against noticeably inferior opponents, but fish is an interesting case to look at - playing more defensive isn't necessarily in his best interests, and it's obviously counter-productive if it puts him in bad positions against lower ranked opponents whom he may be better than, but need to be more assertive with.

i would say his loss to robredo at the AO, his problems with hajek and clement at the USO last year, and his loss to florian mayer at wimbledon are good examples of fish not taking the initiative and letting fluctuations and changes in his opponents play dictate the scoreline, which he really should not be doing.


oh, and devvarman seems to be coming along pretty nicely recently

I think Fish's problems are just mental. It happens to the best of us. I mean the other day I played in a USTA event, the first in 2 years since I don't have time to play in them because of university scheduling. Even though I played fine, since I don't have all that confidence and match practice I used to have, during some rallies with routine shots, I felt better rolling the ball into the court rather than pounding away like I normally would. I think that is the problem with Fish. Yes he may have some confidence at the smaller events, but you suddenly forget about those at the Grand Slams which you have noted. There are plenty of 250s, 500s and event 1000s every year, but those 4 slams (more like 3 for American players :p) are like gold, and you get tentative because you don't want your chances to slip away because of an unforced error especially at such an age as Fish is at 29. Yes, that is the wrong way to approach it, but mentally sometimes your head just speaks to you that way.

But yes, you are right. The definition of these playing styles is impossible to exactly measure and label, but come on do you agree with this buffoon?



Agassi a counter-puncher or pusher? That is ridiculous statement. Agassi is the epitome of what today's game is, aggressive baseline play off of both wings. Just because he doesn't hit the winner every shot like Del Potro and Soderling makes him a counter-puncher or a pusher? That kid bygdubdiesel has something wrong with him.

This post was edited by Godest on Apr 3 2011 02:45pm

yea, i can't really agree with that.

agassi was extremely aggressive early in his career, and then later on he simply seemed better at picking his spots, but i'd always have to consider him an aggressive baseliner.