Quote (Giveuptheghost @ Apr 4 2011 12:45am)

have you heard of feel a fear? he's a pirate player that hit over 2k ranked elo playing only pirate using pretty much this build.

this build does not presume pirate in 1v1; there is a replay of a full game listed in this thread (page 2?) that demonstrates that this build is very realistic and achievable because of pirate's skill set and how it intrinsically lends itself to the game as a whole; it's nothing like raw ap stack veigar, because that gimmick is raw damage at the expense of survivability.

the catch is that pirate doesn't have problems surviving. survivability is not dictated simply by the interactions of dps vs. hp/mitigation such as armor/mres. neither nidalee nor kassadin have a lot of survivability in that sense; but they're actually great characters at surviving. survivability is also about key positioning and the relative safety in which you can do your share of work. in lane, pirate has a huge safety mechanism in controlling lane positioning via deny and a secondary (and tertiary) mechanism involving a self heal and a cleanse. it's not often that you get to push a nidalee or soraka out of lane, but could you do it if they had cleanse?

as the game transitions, pirate gains additional defenses in

1. permanent ghost. this is fucking huge; he is +1 summoners up on you
2. the best cleanse in the game. the best. +2 summoners up on you
3. a self-heal. +3 summoners up on you.

and any items you get on top of it (which can assist you in any ways, ranging from insane lifesteal or a second life or a spell block to add on top of your cleanse). i do list ga as a final alternative to late bthirster because it's survivability at the expense of damage. the same would apply to banshee's or any other situational item that you would get situationally. the item build was a guideline for damage, and the main premise of it was how to get the crit for the optimal dps achievable. i would not deviate from it other than the last item, however.

i really don't see many possible critiques to it, honestly. not only is the mathcraft on virtually everything sound, it has been used in practice in high elo successfully.

i will contest the usability of this guide any day to the point that i am more than willing to play pirate with or against you in a premade environment (of your choice) if you feel confident enough to make such bold critiques.

e:/ in regards to the green elixir, i find that if you feel like you need 8 crit, get it (maybe early teamfights at 70% avarice + cloak crit or something, use judgment). but the only real necessity is around 30-35 minutes in when you have double pdancer + lw with 0 avarice left, so you need enough from green elixir to place you at 100 crit.

e2:/ the item build seems so tight with so many high cost core items, but you have to consider that pirate really honestly does gold faster than any other champion + avarice that more than pay for themselves. this is a huge benefit that can't be ignored, and if over 500 ms isn't enough to keep you alive, you could easily tweak in survival earlier in place of lw instead of after. but i don't think i've ever had to do that ever. i honestly didn't believe that avarice were a good pirate item after a while of playing him, and it was only until i reached manly nirvana that i understood that avarice were really an excellent choice on such a farm-oriented character.

Quote (Giveuptheghost @ Apr 4 2011 01:24am)

summoner spells are well known for being clutch tools frequently used for escaping purposes. it was a very deliberate comparison made to tie back into things commonly used to, "survive," (which seemed to be his biggest complaint).

i realize that the utility of pirate's spells compared to summoner spells might slightly undermine how good they are, but doesn't that say something in itself?

because my build gives you:

more movement speed than a ghosted champion (peaking at 515).
exhaust to reduce physical and magic damage, while also giving you clutch edges over potential killers like noct/yi.
flash to escape the stickiest of situations
on top of everything else listed already.

it was really a case directed toward one universal point which is:

pirate is a fucking escape artist. houdini probably just fucking drowned himself because he realized he'd never have clutch getaways like a pirate.

Quote (ROFLmanMAN @ Apr 4 2011 06:30pm)

its nothing he hasnt heard already. We already discussed fruit and move speed being a form of survivability.

bringing exhaust/flash doesnt really count as additional survivability imo. In the sense that such summoner spells are so popular that its equally likely they will be used against you. Essentially negating their worth. Its like saying the bishops in a game of chess give the black player an advantage when the white player has the same two bishops.

Chubbys argument has merit in various situations. if your opponent, for example, urgot ults/bcrank grab/chain stuns/snare/slow etc... Move speed isn't going to help you there, but health, resists and neat passives (banshees veil) could.

Relying on positioning as a means of lasting through a fight is risky and assuming that your opponents arent trying just as hard to reach and focus you. Then again, isnt that the point behind ashe? Shes a tier one champ and position is her damage shield.

Quote (Wench @ Apr 4 2011 06:23am)

- Terrible chess analogy: I'd 4 move you in chess anyway. your bishops are worthless when I have your king by the balls.

- Urgot/Blitz combo: sure, that's a great combo. it would probably fuck up most other champions in the game. Your argument is about pirate; it's about most champions.

- Positioning: Look at any carry, more so ranged carries, they require poisitioning to be effective. Q to poke, jump in fight once they've used a little CC, realise their teams heals are now useless, win.

Quote (Narcolepsy @ Apr 4 2011 11:47am)

This is a terrible guide..Someone please close/remove this thread from this section.

Quote (ROFLmanMAN @ Apr 4 2011 05:30am)

its nothing he hasnt heard already. We already discussed fruit and move speed being a form of survivability.

bringing exhaust/flash doesnt really count as additional survivability imo. In the sense that such summoner spells are so popular that its equally likely they will be used against you. Essentially negating their worth. Its like saying the bishops in a game of chess give the black player an advantage when the white player has the same two bishops.

Chubbys argument has merit in various situations. if your opponent, for example, urgot ults/bcrank grab/chain stuns/snare/slow etc... Move speed isn't going to help you there, but health, resists and neat passives (banshees veil) could.

Relying on positioning as a means of lasting through a fight is risky and assuming that your opponents arent trying just as hard to reach and focus you. Then again, isnt that the point behind ashe? Shes a tier one champ and position is her damage shield.

Quote (Giveuptheghost @ Apr 4 2011 01:17pm)

yes, the bolded part is the idea for pirate's survival. he has a raw damage shield, but he's just such a fast little fucker that it's like trying to catch a super teemo; which i'm pretty sure we can all agree is difficult as fuck.

and exhaust/flash isn't necessarily equal. pirate can dictate if he gets disabled because he holds all the cards in when to go in; it's very difficult to initiate onto an ashe, but i'd wager that it's even harder to get in on a pirate. he can just hang back and make you guys initiate in a really subpar manner, then double fuck you up with an ulti. not to mention that if it was a traded exhaust, he can get rid of yours.

and with that point, blitz grabs, stuns, etc. are all equally detrimental to all characters. i find that it's difficult to say to kogmaw, trist, etc. to, "bulk up on more survivability because you'll get chain stunned to death." it's like, yeah, but who isn't?
none of those characters traditionally bulk up; you can, but it's generally more useful to just turn into a snowplow.