and yet nobody can explain to me y theres a clog or stale... theres no reason y theres a stale.. if people dont duel yes then nothing changes but if people are dueling the normal ladder system would work. From what ive seen nobdies refined anything ive asked these ladder runners.. they all are copy and pasting the previous persons. Many people can just blindly follow this.. Im glad here at DT we take time to review such matters to really see if things are done right.. Ive been told this system been in place the alst 2 years.. B4 ur jsp was even made.. so really who refinded these rules.. who made these rules and futhurmore who can explain how stales happen in the normal system.

Now most real life compitions with ranking ive ever seen have been done in a nomal fashion.. you werre not number 1 without earning it..

id like you to show an example of how this stales... use the format i did above show me how there would be stale.. even with a 24 hour wait.. people would have to wait a max for 24 hours before trying to the spot... doesnt seem to bad like i said most of the ladders ive seen its like a once every day or other day updating.

This isnt trying to piss anyone off im just trying to understand.. NY State runs a ranking for shooters and for 2 years i was in the top 10.. i had to go agianst everyone above me to move up the rank and yes it took a long time but it was worth it.. i felt i truly earned where i was.


An example of a flaw to this ystem

a
b
c
d

Lets say A and C are friends and C cant beat B.. one day B calls out A... A loses on purpse(B-A-C).. then A lets C beat him(B-C-A) .. this bring him to 3rd place.. tank, Now A knows he can beat B so he calls B out and wins.. so now B is stuck in 3rd place.. A-C-B.. no yes B will be able to rechallange after time.. but for now B is unjustly robbed of this ranking.. and this sort of lil tiffs could happen over and over... now think if 3 people work together to run the top... could potential knock everyone out by only having one decent person..

Now with a started system or the adment we are talking

a
b
c
d

C has to beat B to move up... B has to beat A to much up.. Now if somone beats C and he looses his spot then yes he needs to fight back into the top.. while (lets say D beat him), D can fight the next seat person to go up.. seem like the same effect with a more acurate of whos acualy top.

If you cant break the top i would be left assume ur not good enough to do so and thusly dont deseaver to be in the top.. Idk just mroe of my thoughts.


Fixed the example if it dont make sense the first time.. lol

This post was edited by Grimdayz on Jan 20 2010 12:59pm

The basic outline for the rules are the d2gm rules.
Ever since I started late 1.08 there have been various "standards" in gm dueling that have changed over the years.

I know that single advancement can work like you say, but the problem that comes is not with the system so much as people's schedules, people's willingness to participate and the people's needs to be able to duel when their schedule allows. one set of duels could potentially put a halt to the advancement of all those below them.
The leap frogging allows for less bottlenecks in the ladder. fair or unfair as it seems, it helps the flow.

The stalls happen because we are allowed 3 days to get the duel done.
The time allowed to complete duels is kind of needed because of peoples schedules.

If there was a much shorter time limit, people would be using dodges to advance far more. That isn't really fair either.
The ability to advance 2 ranks allows more activity to take place, less dodges and a better flow imo.

Just like driving in rush hour, there are bottle necks where speed slows.
Everyone is moving fast up until rank 3 and the backup would occur.

I guess the only way to see how it works and the positives and negatives of it is to be a part of it.


By the way....
Wanted to add that I am not opposed to trying new things out.
It can cause problems changing things mid-stride sometimes though.
But i'm more than willing to try stuff.

I play this game to have fun after all


This post was edited by Ashikaga on Jan 20 2010 01:16pm

I agree i need to fully sit through one to see it. I guess i see it as there might be a stale at top 3 but really should the top 3 be changing that much.. i guess my idea is that the top 3 are spose to be harder to get through.. sure eat up the lower ranks do the hoping around thing and give people the time and fun they want the hardcore good people will get to the top... But with the same 24 hour rules and dodging rules i cant see how a system with the top 3 u have to fight through being aprob but idk. Maybe the top 3 would get stuck... if they just afk'd but the dodge rule would bump them outa there spot.. so number 1 guy dodges number 2 but the first dodge (3 days) would be done.. now hes in second place.. so the 3rd guy calls him out... now if he dodges that (another 3 days) then hes 3rd palce... basicly if u cant get on and defence ur tital once a week i guess u shouldnt own the title right??

Agian thanks for taking the time to talk with me on this.. as far as the sorc ladder goes i will not run it with a braket system if i run it.. it will be a modified system and hopfully shooting from however we end doing these IK duels.

also im bring these things up now to not be changing things in the middle... the ladder hs had 3 duels at its current system.. about 1 a day.. so a starnard system wouldnt change it that much right now.. idk with higher activity.

This post was edited by Grimdayz on Jan 20 2010 01:20pm

The top 3 will be tough to crack once the ladder balances.

We are all on the ladder in random positions at the moment.
The ladder needs time to settle. And the better duelers will be holding strong at the top

So much so that maybe you will become thankful for the 24 hour penalty and the 2 rank advancment.
Those 2 rules help the less experience/lesser geared get oppurtunities to crack the top tier.

Take a peek at the last few months rankings in besh's bvb ladder to see just how much the top 3-5 ranks change.
There will be change, but the overall better barbs remain at the top.
Ladder just needs time to settle. It's all chaos until it does.

This post was edited by Ashikaga on Jan 20 2010 01:24pm

well if anyone has a hdin and can grush fast i was needing a grush i got a bumper anyone is welcome to join just waiting to see if coolychilly is going to pm me back about ower IK duel

But Why should the weaker less off have a chance at the top.. earn your way up get better and earn the spot.. why should someone with worse gear-charms and skill have a chance to beat the leaders..

I have looked a lot of the ladders and overall i see this..



Jan 9 2010 09:55pm
1) ♚ Evil_ArreatzJr: vortex619 (One)
2) ♛ Vampir: LoRdNuKe (One)
3) ♜ JEBBS: FIREjdg (Dark Tavern)
4) pkbladez: Anilator(A) (BA)
5) MUSSO: coolychilly (Dark Tavern)
6) Jater: JATT (Dark Tavern)
7) Nor-CalKillah: wwinters (Monumental)
8) iBvB: byracki (DClone-Hunters)
9) HSBC: D2Child (Legion)
10) MotherFacku: TheFacku (WDJ)
11) E_V: iggypop686 (Solo)
12) mataplaga: mataplaga (Solo)
13) Misery: exlax (heroes)
14) WhirlingWind: vinhdiezel (Legion)


Jan 16 2010 03:49pm

*Evil_ArreatzJr defends the Throne 5x*

1) ♚ Evil_ArreatzJr: vortex619 (One)
2) ♛ Vampir: LoRdNuKe (One)
3) ♜ Jater: JATT (Dark Tavern)
4) MUSSO: coolychilly (Dark Tavern)
5) Nor-CalKillah: wwinters (Monumental)
6) iBvB: byracki (DClone-Hunters)
7) HSBC: D2Child (Legion)
8) WhirlingWind: vinhdiezel(Legion)
9) E_V: iggypop686 (Solo)
10) MotherFacku: TheFacku (Valor)
11) Misery: exlax (heroes)
12) mataplaga: mataplaga (Solo)
13) laugh : RedVII (Palapk Nation)
14) UnDeFeAtB : gotchaown (Heroes)
15) Armedes : peden5281 (Solo)



Jan 19 2010 05:21pm
Evil_ArreatzJr defends the Throne 5x*

1) ♚ Evil_ArreatzJr: vortex619 (One)
2) ♛ Vampir: LoRdNuKe (One)
3) ♜ Jater: JATT (Dark Tavern)
4) MUSSO: coolychilly (Dark Tavern)
5) Nor-CalKillah: wwinters (Monumental)
6) iBvB: byracki (DClone-Hunters)
7) HSBC: D2Child (Legion)
8) WhirlingWind: vinhdiezel(Legion)
9)MotherFacku: TheFacku (Valor)
10) E_V: iggypop686 (Solo)
11) Misery: exlax (heroes)
12) mataplaga: mataplaga (Solo)
13) Armedes : peden5281 (Solo)
14) JEBBS : Firejdg (Dark Tavern)
15.) laugh : RedVII (Palapk Nation)



Doesnt seem stable at all to me.. yes the one guy is on top but the top 5 change constanly all month..

notice how one person gets slammed right outa the top.. yes i get that the person must not of earned it but going from number 3 seat to number 14 in 10 days seems kinda messed up.. did all them people really get better then him in 10 days?

I understand the top people are going to be the top... so really would the top 3 rule have efefcted this??

PS: not saying anyone is bad or anyhting just saying.. did all them people get better then him in them 10 days? i mean i understand hes working his way back up BUT it dont seem right to me.

Ok after more reading i understand he acualy left the ladder and returned... but as i look i still see a large clog the same as u describe that would happen in our version. like its constantly changing but theres always going to be a day or so wait it seems to really call out a higher rank

This post was edited by Grimdayz on Jan 20 2010 01:49pm

but alot of this has to do with the fact lower ppl on the ladder might not wanna take the time to get higher on it as u got to think the guy on top has been working on makeing everything he can perf where not saying everyone can rush out and get all perf gear but that gives ppl something to work at also that works in 2 ways as if we ever desided to shut the ladder down thay walk away with some nice gear to trade or use just my 2 cents

true also if i win my duel tonight i am going to try for top spot with whoever has it so LAWL

Exactly....
And the clogs still happen with ways to make it lessened.
Imagine how bad they can be without some of those rules?