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Feb 8 2010 10:13pm
Quote (lawlzz @ Feb 8 2010 06:40pm)
you are a smart cookie ;p


This comment should be directed at James' post.

He gave his opinion backed by all kinds of facts and info.

I simply voiced my interpretation of the article to contrast his.
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Feb 8 2010 10:14pm
geib smarts
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Feb 8 2010 10:24pm
Quote (GTL @ Feb 8 2010 05:08pm)
What I took away from the article is that these heroin maintenance centre's attempt to turn an addiction into manageable daily routine. With this attempt I think they mean to try and step away from addiction towards something more habitualized. I certainly don't understand or know the medical implications of such an endeavor but looking at it from a subjective point of view, one can derive the intentions and preferred outcome to be laudable.


speaking from a point of reference where i have first hand experience, the problem with heroin is that its half life is about 4 hours. methadone has a half life of around 12 hours. so in terms of MAINTENANCE, one dose a day is a lot more realistically realized using the drug that will allow the person from bottoming into full blown withdrawal before thier next dose. if you are trying to maintain heroin users by allowing them to inject heroin, it can really only work the way a maintenance regimen was invisioned is if you either allow more than one visit per day to the "heroin clinic" or to "trust" a junkie with a take home supply of heroin. i personally think that a real junkie would shoot the shit up as soon as they felt the need, not allowing for a stabilization of the addiction process that would be the only way a user could make the transformation from a rabid junkie to someone that wants to get on with life, but admits the drugs is stronger than they are. i know in england they give the users heroin to take home. to a certain extent, the main impetus of this program is to take the criminal element out of your life, and to eliminate the panic of a street addict that eventually gets caught up in all kinds of bad situations trying to maintain his drug supply. its a tough situation, and 2 percent of heroin users quit totally for life with no relapses. at least it was last time i checked and GTL you are a smart man. your take on that article was pretty insightful
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Feb 8 2010 10:36pm
Quote (Den3 @ Feb 8 2010 08:24pm)
speaking from a point of reference where i have first hand experience, the problem with heroin is that its half life is about 4 hours.  methadone has a half life of around 12 hours.  so in terms of MAINTENANCE, one dose a day is a lot more realistically realized using the drug that will allow the person from bottoming into full blown withdrawal before thier next dose.  if you are trying to maintain heroin users by allowing them to inject heroin, it can really only work the way a maintenance regimen was invisioned is if you either allow more than one visit per day to the "heroin clinic" or to "trust" a junkie with a take home supply of heroin.  i personally think that a real junkie would shoot the shit up as soon as they felt the need, not allowing for a stabilization of the addiction process that would be the only way a user could make the transformation from a rabid junkie to someone that wants to get on with life, but admits the drugs is stronger than they are.  i know in england they give the users heroin to take home. to a certain extent, the main impetus of this program is to take the criminal element out of your life, and to eliminate the panic of a street addict that eventually gets caught up in all kinds of bad situations trying to maintain his drug supply. its a tough situation, and 2 percent of heroin users quit totally for life with no relapses. at least it was last time i checked and GTL you are a smart man.  your take on that article was pretty insightful


tl;dr too many smart people
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Feb 8 2010 10:45pm
ugh I made my head hurt trying to prove or disprove robo/robo + peace for lvl30 BvC.

Did I miss something or just mess up the math?

http://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=39627347&p=264440474


----------------------------
Graeme you point was quit valid, I just question that as applicable to all heroin users. Its either very labor intensive (3-4 clinic visits a day), or you have to trust them to bring this home and 1) not od 2) keep it (not lose it to theft from someone else in line etc) Barring the really far gone cases, it IS still possible (although difficult) to slowly ween down their methadone.

Still should be interesting to see effectiveness long term. Its certainly not crazy, just not sure how to control theft or stop one from using a days supply all at once.
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Feb 8 2010 10:55pm
hey you lld guys. these boots... just found them, i bow to your expertise in cluing me in on them thank you

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Feb 8 2010 11:06pm
Quote (Den3 @ Feb 8 2010 08:55pm)
hey you lld guys.  these boots... just found them, i bow to your expertise in cluing me in on them thank you

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o70/den3_photos/lldmaybe.jpg


Very nice. high tri res. low strength. dex. 30 frw

The only thing its missing is of importance though :/

10fhr
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Feb 8 2010 11:10pm
and cold res... Dex makes up for FHR somewhat.

Alot of people won't count poison as a resist, which is kind of stupid with so many plauge zons recently.

But still really nice dual res boots.
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Feb 8 2010 11:23pm
thanks guys. i knew you guys would know it all :)
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Feb 8 2010 11:24pm
Quote (Den3 @ Feb 8 2010 09:23pm)
thanks guys. i knew you guys would know it all :)


trust james/graeme/taylor more then anyone. there really good with lld pricing
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