Quote (Devilish @ 3 Nov 2009 13:08)

You completely miss the point as usual.

Even making a 2 man or 3 man game wouldn't prevent somebody from asking their friend to perm them once their opponent leaves the game.

The point I brought up is touching on the fact that you claim looking at items can "validate" them. Clash tests and asking to leave and rejoin multiple times may not always poof the charms, nor is it making the duels go in an orderly fashion. I really like how you try to bring in smug and rude comments, being very condescending as usual, and clearly direct them towards me. I don't cheat, and I sure as shit am not trying to "find fast easy way to achieve GM bvb status". That's just riddiculous that you would even come up with such an outrageous comment like that, but we're all used to it.

Let me try to clarify a little bit, and maybe you will understand: Banning unperms means that not a single unperm is allowed. By looking at charms or gears there is NO POSSIBLE WAY to determine if they are perm or unperm. Especially regarding charms. If one were to attempt to cheat, they could easilly make up a false history in an attempt to use unperms. This is most likely not the case as every single person who has participated in the last two mixes (yourself discluded) has been very GM, yet you cannot simply alter the rules to suit your needs. It is VERY commonly known that over 90% of the bearclaw 3/20/20's on west nl are unperm, therefore by banning 3/20/20 bc's you would eliminate the possibility of somebody using unperm sc's without going through the hassle of clash tests, rejoining, or providing history. Zbug arreats are another issue. You have said on multiple occassions that there are perm and unperm copies of hats with the same stats and there's no way to tell the difference unless it poofs. You have to stand by your words here, Rugzy. Even though I ADMITINGLY used an unperm hat there's no real way to tell that it's unperm until it poofs.

The fact that you so desperately try to attack me on anything your feeble mind can conjure up is just sad, man. Seriously. It's so sad that it's come to Tony changing rules so you participate because you think that I am unable to acquire legit gears. ONE unperm item is not going to change the outcome of the duels nor would a complete unperm barb. The outcome of the duels are based on build vs build and whirlwind technique. You will soon find that out.

Just so you guys know: I am not accusing anybody of attempting to cheat or pass unperm sc's as perm. Every single person I have encountered on both mixes, with the exception of Rugzy, has been very gm and has showed integrity, trust, and honor. I am simply making a point that Rugzy says one thing, does another, and tries to alter the rules as he sees fit to match he needs or gears. There have been numerous occassions of him selling unperm gears as perm "unknowingly", and 3/20/20 bc's are included in the list of unperms that came from him which he labled "legit". Tony made this mix "perm items only" to cater to Rugzy for his multiple complaints on my one unperm item, and I'm 100% fine with that. I'll use a different hat, it doesn't matter to me, but if you're altering the rules you must do it completely and without bias.

Quote (KahnHuska @ 2 Nov 2009 20:16)

OK Guys What it Comes down to Is Its is a Fun Ladder. We are All going to Do our Best to Keep It Gm, Legit, Perm. But The rules of the Ladder are going to be about the same. We will check gear to Join Ladder, If Anyone Trys to Use Unperms The will be dropped/Ban from Ladder. As far as Checking gear befor Each Match Im With Dirtbag On that I have dif set up for dif barbs/Builds.

Idk Tony and I will Talk and see waht we can Come up with

Quote (Rugzy @ Nov 2 2009 11:52pm)

bc 3 20 20's should not be banned as there are many legit ones around.  If someone has 37x 3 20 20 bc's .. they should be able to give history.  If they can't give history, then that would be suspect.  In that case a simple 1 minute asking them to rejoin 3 times or perm test them.  I have a couple different unperm ebugs around just for these occasions  and this should suffice... and of course leave the game by not perming out.  It is an honor system, aside from showing gears, you have to tust that person is legit and not a cheat with no integrity. 

Most people who uses unperms unknowingly and bought it legit through a very reliable source is very different than blatent user of unperms who is always trying to find ways to cheat and find fast easy way to achieve GM bvb status. 

As long as you do not request a perm when leaving game and leave first without calling in a friend.  Make a 2 man game and this problem is solved.  3 man if you use a mod and no mods will perm them.  For if they do perm out from a mod, they should be kicked and banned from bvb.

Quote (KahnHuska @ Nov 2 2009 07:16pm)

OK Guys What it Comes down to Is Its is a Fun Ladder. We are All going to Do our Best to Keep It Gm, Legit, Perm. But The rules of the Ladder are going to be about the same. We will check gear to Join Ladder, If Anyone Trys to Use Unperms The will be dropped/Ban from Ladder. As far as Checking gear befor Each Match Im With Dirtbag On that I have dif set up for dif barbs/Builds.

Idk Tony and I will Talk and see waht we can Come up with

Quote (Devilish @ Nov 3 2009 12:27am)

It's all for fun, man, and you know damn well we have fun. 

Another point that I actually forgot to touch on was that Rugzy is so adamently speaking on "trust and integrity", yet he wants to see everybody's gears before each duel?  That's a major contradiction right there.  Not only does it contradict other points, but it brings ups a few other problems:

1. it allows you to see exactly what your opponent is using and counter build accordingly, taking the guessing game aspect (huge part of melee dueling) out of it.
2. it wastes time
3. people change gears throughout the duels (see guessing game above) to counter their opponent's build accordingly, and checking gears each time you stash wastes MORE time
4. it shows that you do not trust your opponent is not cheating. if you are participating in a fun tournament and start accusing people of cheating or turning into a serious matter for whatever reason, you should probably not participate.

As I have previously stated: A football team does not get to see the opposing team's playbook or visit their practice before a game, do they?  Part of the game is not knowing what your opponent is using to compete with you.  It's all fun, yes, we have shitloads of fun, but it IS a competition of sorts. If somebody accuses me of cheating I will gladly show them any questionable gears (items that can be eth/non repair such as boots, gloves, belts) but showing them my entire build and charms does nothing but give them an advantage.  This could also cause a huge delay before the duels if a person decides to counter build before the first duel, shows their gears again, then their opponent decides to counter build after that, and then you're stuck in a big fuckin gear switching cycle that could possibly never end. ANY legit duelling melee tournament that requires gear checks (these mixes do not btw, only the initial one) are done with a neutral 3rd party to prevent non-blind counter building. It takes a HUGE aspect out of the duelling game, and you all know this.

Quote (Billbo @ Nov 2 2009 07:25pm)

i agree with this. rugzy has said exactly whats on my mind, You can use what ever you wish, Just no blatant use of UNperm gear I agree

I wonder what helm you are gona use now conan?

Quote (Billbo @ Nov 2 2009 07:28pm)

yes i get the last little rebuttal



yes i agree seeing your opponents gear does give you an advantage.

But what you seem to forget conan is changing gear in the middle of a ft7 can only happen with Agreement between both players, its in the rules,

In the past Cha did that to me, And i choose not to say anyting, but i could have said No cha you cant change your gear once the match has started.