Quote (Fej @ 2 Sep 2013 07:52)
MC postja a mostani tvz-rol
1.) SC2 metagame
In my opinion, I think Starcraft II is a really well-made game. But why is the popularity of Starcraft II declining?
Any RTS games tend to become boring as soon as the variety of build orders diminishes and the metagame becomes stagnant and one dimensional. For example, in PvZ in Wings of Liberty, it was always a fight between all-ins vs. broodlords/infestors/corruptors. At first, protosses started using motherships to fight against the brood lords/infestor/corruptors composition, but as soon as the zergs figured out not to clump up their broodlords and corruptors, PvZ became the most boring match up to watch in WoL because it was a fight on whether the zergs can get their composition or whether the protoss can break the zerg beforehand. PvT was a similar case. It was whether the terran could break protosses within 15 minutes.
When WoL was becoming really boring to watch for fans, Heart of the Swarm came out and it really boosted the popularity. I believe that Korean market increased due to Heart of the Swarm. However, we are starting to see the exact same problem that we have seen in WoL.
In TvZ, Terran uses marines, maurauders, medivacs, and widow mines against ANY zerg compositions. Zergs can’t trade efficiently using any other unit compositions other than mutas, lings, banelings and teching up to ultralisks. Now what is the exact problem in TvZ? Let’s look at Starcraft I as an example.
In TvZ SCI, Zerg is really weak on its hatchery tech. So, Zerg throws a curveball by going fast lair into fast mutalisks or lurkers. No matter what builds they choose, the Zergs can beat Terrans if that Zerg is higher skilled.
However, what about the Heart of the Swarm? Terrans are basically immune to the roach attacks, So Zergs are forced play a macro game centered on lings. The most similar composition to mutalisk-lurker composition in BW is mutalisk-infestor. However, infestors are now too weak as a midgame unit in TvZ. So Zergs are forced to choose mutalisks lings and banelings,
Terrans don’t even need to scout. They all know it’s going to be mutalisks lings and banelings. This allows Terrans to just send their boosted medivacs to harass. They don’t care if they lose it because it’s not risky at all. Zergs are forced to position their units to deal with the harassments from the medivacs which allows Terrans to gain a favorable position at the front which allows for a cost effective trade.
How was it SCI? There was an opportunity cost involved in making a dropship, which was the time spent on making science vessel. Also, it was very risky because dropships were shot down by 2 scourages. So, dropships did more damage when they were successful and fans were more appreciative and excited by the dropship plays.
Furthermore, let’s say Zergs defends and defends and is finally allowed to tech to Hive. What units can they make? Broodlords, Ultralisks. Both of these units are easily countered by low tech Terran units. Ultralisks? Build more maurauders. Broodlords? Build more vikings.
However, if Zergs are able to get infestors and broodlords or ’luxurious composition’ (MC’s exact words), then they are able to trade more evenly with the Terran. But we don’t see those kinds of games a lot, why is that? Gosu Terrans tend to force engagements early with their low tech units to have consistent efficient trades before Zergs get their Hive compositions. It’s a really frustrating situation for Zerg progamers. They lose the game if they make one micro mistake and lose all their banelings to widow mines.
How was it Starcraft I? If Zergs teched to Hive, they had defilers which could turn the tide of the battles, but which were also weak to science vessels. You could never think of taking down an ultralisks with pure marine firebats and you needed several siege tanks and science vessels for it. In Starcraft II? Ultralisks -> meal for marauders, broodlords -> meal for vikings.
I don’t think the overseer patch was bad, But I doubt that the overseer patch will change the current TvZ metagame. I loved TvZ in WoL, but now? I really don’t like it. It’s always the same. There’s always a point where I think Zerg is going to win, but due to sheer number of marines and widow mines, and Zerg makes one major mistake and just ends up losing the game in the end. A simple game where the decisiveness in game lies in whether the Terran is going to get 3/3 upgrade or not.
I actually think PvZ is more entertaining. There are variety of choices such as roach/hydra/viper, or mutalisks after hydra/ling pressure. Choices in PvZ is just as diverse as it was in BW. It’s so different from the roach/hydra or muta choices in WoL.
Fundamentally, I think TvZ is the most entertaining match up to watch in Starcraft, whether it be I or II. I hope the balance team really acknowledges as soon as possible and gives variety to the match up.
I am really saddened that PvT is also becoming very stagnant. But I think in PvT, there’s still an intensive micro battle between high templars vs. ghosts and variety and entertainment in medivac/warp prism/proxy pylon plays.
Zerg vs. Terran? Fear of ling counterattacks? Build a bunker and burrow a widow mine. Mutalisk harassment? That’s not viable due to the fear of possible drops and widow mines,
And while all this is happening, slow constant siege of widow mines at the front.
If SCII is to regain its popularity or be entertaining again, I think we should fix the current problems in TvZ.
TLDR: amirol mar mindenki beszel honapok ota, hogy egy 25 gasba kerulo unit countereli az osszes Z unitot mid gamebe, de ha ne adj isten veletlen eljut a Z hive techig mert 1267213163273X jobban jatszik mint a terran, akkor a terran szepen countereli a tier3-as unitjait az o tier1-es untijaival, ami ugye szinten 25 gasba kerul, minden idiota latja h egy fos a zvt, es a zergnek 1279123X jobban kell jatszania mint a terranak, de ghost mindjart jon es elmondja h a jatek teljesen balanced (sot a zerg overpowered), mert o olyan kurva ugyes hogy mikor zerggel jatszik offrace, a 60 banelingjet egyenkent microzza es a terran megsemmisulve kilep
1. tier 1
a marinon kivul nincs masik tier 1-es unit az meg edes keves barmi counterelesehez, hacsak nem outmacrozta mar haromszorosan legalabb a 10. perc ota a zerget.
2. semmi fantazia nincs egyik zergben sem, nem hasznalnak lofaszt se ( baneling mine, nydus, burrow roach, hydraliskeket se nagyon latni, pedig az is mukodik bio ellen is, mutakkal nagyon kevesen jatszanak tenyleg _jol_, ultra burrow micro)
3. micro az nonexistent, meg csak flankelni se szoktak a 2400 pontos zergek se, joke. tovabbra se latok semmi mast 1a-n kivul, es utana a rage
4. es egyebkent igen, pont ugy szoktam engagelni zvtben ahogy leirtad.
5. igazabol kurvara leszarom mert soha nem biozom kb
mech ellen meg egy imba szar a zerg a kibaszott sh-val meg a viperrel, meg ha egyszerre csak egy lehetne a jatekban azt mondanam, hogy oke. Mondjuk a mutalisk is egy joke kategoria meg mindig. A matchup szerintem is egy szar, es megkellene valtoztatni, de ahhoz, hogy a zergek vesztenek tobb koze van annak, hogy wolban kurvara el volt mindenki kenyelmesedve az 1a compjaikkal, aztan amikor mar micro is kene akkor back to diamond.
Mostanaban meg skyterrannal nyitok egybol kb, pont azert, mert egy imba szar a sh meg a viper, csak problemas lesz a dolog, ha a wm-et nerfelik, mert semmim nem lesz amivel tavol tartom a mutakat, mert a thor egy haszontalan szar amig nincs belole 13246236. De wm-ekre harassolo zerg meg mindig soha nem fog rafutni, ha egy kicsit is tud jatszani, szoval van egy rakas dead supplyom meg factory production timeom.
Masik ami tetszett a multkor, hogy irta valami zerg, hogy szanalmas, hogy egy mine el tudja donteni a jatekot (eloszor is eleg nehezen jon azert az ossze, bar megtortenhet) de akkor beszelgessunk, tvpben egy emp vagy egy storm el tudja donteni a jatekot, fragile as fuck de ott legalabb mindket felnek ugyan olyan, evek ota ilyen, duhh. wol tvz, 1 fungal el tudott donteni mindent, az is olyan volt wol vegeig : D most amikor a zergek vannak a fasz rossz oldalan persze, hogy nem tetszik.
This post was edited by Cpt_Ghost on Sep 2 2013 04:19am