the skill u say the game does not take? ok let me tell u what i think skill in a moba is
-knowledge of -heroes/picks, counterpicking if possible
-builds and items
-the ability to harass, last hit and deny
-general map awareness, know who is where and doing what
-know what to do and when to do it (5 man push, turtle, gank, kong etc)
-specific heroes, play your best on different roles (mid, carry support w/e u like to play)
-analyze situations and learn from mistakes
(no matter how good people are most make mistakes but the idea is to minimize their numbers)
-be focused and do not get mad when others fail (even u) or when u get ganked (this one is hard considering hon community)

these are ofc general terms and i could go more in depth but i think this should give u a good idea on what im talking about
im not a pro but i consider myself decent and my best ability is analyzing the game and paying attention to how it goes

I agree with you 100%, but again this is not skill it's knowledge, every can learn it. Skill is something not every one can do, games like fps for example, or strategy like wc3 sc2, lets say sc2, every can ofc learn strategies and stuff, but not every one can achieve effective high apm, high apm is the skill, the higher effective apm the better you are, or fps, sensivity, accurate. That's skill, either you have it or not. But hon? Ok maybe last hitting does take a bit skill, but does not need long practice to achieve high skill, maybe I was a bit confusing, I don't mean hon takes completely no skill, but very least, it's all about knowledge, I can even prove it, if you will check the age of top players, 1800+ , there prob won't be even one under the age of 20, kids bad at this game, not cuz of skill, cuz stupid.

This post was edited by GlaGlaGla on Sep 16 2013 12:42am

u make it sound like anybody can be good at anything when in fact it's not true
some people can never be as good as others at certain things no matter how much they practise

No that's not what I mean, off at certain things not all can, but hon is not that thing, hon is more like let's say building s house, if you know how to build it, you'll build it, skill don't take place here. Anyone can build a house if he has the knowledge, I'm talking about simple house yeah.

Everyone has its own opinion and experience ofc
I been playing almost all kind of games, and I find hon the least skill taking because I once played in a team too and we were getting to 1800-1900 , now I just play for fun and I hardly get above 1700, and I saw a lot of low level guys that you would say have no skill, but once they found a team and learned to play together, got much higher, that's not skill imo





You know I just though about it and il take my words back, hon does take skill, but not so much, creeping and reactions do take part and skill in hon.

I guess we just have a different opinion/view on "skills"

This post was edited by GlaGlaGla on Sep 16 2013 04:23am

Look at your average 1700 player then look at a really good competitive player (there are no good competitive players left in HoN, so lets say look at a member of team [A] of Dota2). Both players know alot about game basics like how to last hit, deny, jungle effectively, and what skill builds and items to go. But the pro is different in that he makes more out of every situation. He has better item choice, better positioning, better ward placement depending on situation as support, etc. It takes skill to get that knowledge and then apply it

True, but I don't call it skill, more lickly how strong the person wants to learn and be good at it. I don't see knowledge as a skill at all

well maybe u just dont like the word skill, but lets take this scenario

1v1 matchup mid, same hero (usually nevermore or in hon soulstealer)
win is first kill or first tower taken or if none of these occur, cs at 15 min

the better player will always win and as smack said, little things count more
last hitting/denying, positioning ( i won't even talk item choice as it is assumed that most will build good))
so yea imo it does come to skill, not counting luck element here aka missing attacks from ramp and whatnot (which again can be minimized through better positioning)

but again it comes down to it, like anything else, u learn what and how to do it, u practice and get better at it
some might get good faster, some are slower learners and ofc as i said it does not mean that 2 different rands can be the same skill level
take it like this, 2 random people who never played hon, make them play like 1k games and in the end one might completely rape other in a 1v1 or they might both suck or w/e
what im getting at is that some people are more naturally inclined to be better at certain things than others and if u say skill does not matter i believe u r wrong
(thats why we got doctors, lawyers, programmers and people who sell burgers, waiters and others who clean up toilets)

Fact is, there are thousands of players which are still at 1000-1600 MMR after thousands of games, while there are players who hit 1800+ after for example 500 games. There must be huge differences in skill between those players. Yes, HoN does work to 95% with your brain, but that's what the skill is here. Faster, better thinking, choosing the best desicions in shortest times. That's what differs the very good players from average/bad players. Other than that you ofc also need good reactions and estimation of loads of things (fog hooks/stuns, passing an enemy hero at the right time etc.). It's just so fun outthinking other players in HoN and that gives you a huge advantage because hardly anyone below 1800 MMR can do so properly.
I am one ot the guys who think the IQ matters a shit ton in HoN and my RL friends and my ingame friends proove me right.

This post was edited by The_Darkness_II on Sep 16 2013 06:21am

That's correct, that's what I'm trying to say, hon is about how smart you are, and small part in skill, I faced a lot of high mmr people and was shocked to find that they can't last hit or react fast to simple things,
Anyways I don't think knowledge is skill, but creeping and reactions are ofc

Knowledge isn't skill but knowing how to apply it is.

Pretty much everyone knows you should farm alot on a carry hero. But a pro carry will get 70+ cs in 10 minutes in a freefarm lane and will also be really efficient in the jungle and will choose the right fights to come to. A 1500 player will probably get like 50 cs in 10 minutes in freefarm lane (if even that), and just won't be as efficient. Both players know they're meant to farm, but the pro uses his skills to do it alot better.