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Dec 16 2011 05:50am
Quote (ImoK @ 16 Dec 2011 14:44)
didnt zeph in beta used to be stronger?
i think he already got nerfed once then people started using him again in this metagame

idk, maybe remove tornados when he ports/reduce the magic dmg/s thats coming out

30dmg per tornado*8 and 60dmg/s from his ulti is just insane closeup


zeph is fine atm imo
any nerf wud make him useless

and most ranged late game can own him sil flint valk etc...
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Dec 16 2011 05:57am
did zypher get changed? cuz i was already raping with it
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Dec 16 2011 07:06am
Quote (Pitbulul @ 16 Dec 2011 13:50)
zeph is fine atm imo
any nerf wud make him useless

and most ranged late game can own him sil flint valk etc...


zeph isn't fine at all
easiest hero to rape games 1vs5

they should lower the nado dmg on creeps again, so he can't farm that easily. like 50% or 60% dmg only (currently it's 75%)
maybe also another minor nerf like smaller ult range, smaller slow in his ult, adjusting tornado dmg to 20/22.5/25/27.5 or even a flat 25 dmg/sec (since he mainly starts to rape at lvl 5 this wouldn't make him too strong first lvls)

This post was edited by The_Darkness_II on Dec 16 2011 07:08am
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Dec 16 2011 08:13am
Yeah I've kind of had the same experience. But I don't think its gotten really much harder to solo stomp, its just you have to make a few adjustments. The metagame has changed ALOT, so pubstomping just isn't the same.

First off you really want to pick a hero that can stomp the current most popular hero picks middle while also being able to carry lategame. I've noticed that Nomad is picked for mid literally EVERY SINGLE GAME. So I've built up a strategy kind of around that.

So far I've found the best options are:

Fayde (yes she's not a hard carry but mid/late game with Puzzle3 she totally crushes. Only really really late game does she become useless)

Zephyr - obviously dominates melee heroes that people usually go mid with (nomad, pebbles, dev), and has very very good carry potential. only problem is he can't gank that easily

Magebane - dominates almost any melee hero mid. No mana = bye bye. Also if played well can slam some bad players on ranged heroes too. For mid I would go vanguard -> phase -> manta build, since battle fury is really more for emofarm sidelane

Revenant - If the enemy team doesn't hold hands as 5 and doesn't buy eye / wards, this guy is definitely the best pick. Sadly the current metagame kind of revolves around people being super gay and travelling as 5 always, but with a little teamwork you can overcome this as well. Basically, Revenant's 1st skill lets him harass the fuck out of any melee hero anytime they go for last hit. Also he has invis to avoid ganks if their mid starts crying. Additionally, he really starts to shine when you have maxxed 1st and 2nd skill and 1 in invis and a hellflower. You can just invis up to almost any hero, pop hellflower + 2nd skill + 1st skill on yourself, and kill them within seconds. This works especially well versus gay S2 heroes like Nomad that have a million escapes. No spell casting = no escape for you bro. Finally, once you get harkon's blade + hellflower + nullstone or something, that hero hits so fucking hard its like unstoppable.

Nomad - obvious reasons. like 3 potential escape spells, very easy harass, prtty easy rune control, mass burst damage, carry potential, etc. He's so fucking gay I refuse to play him unless I random it because I really hate his playstyle but he's definitely a viable pick. Will also stop that faggot on enemy team with 90% played Nomad from picking it.

Arachna - Personally I think this is an amazing hero which has alot of potential. Can basically do everything you need: harass lame melee faggots, own invis heroes (Fuck you nomad), gank lanes with good rune (invis/haste = eZ kills), and hard carry lategame. For arachna, I wouldn't go the ganker build of like phase / shroud / bkb. That's fucking gay. Just build her exactly like Drow Ranger in dota in terms of items. Steamboots first, then helm of dominator. Dominate a vagabond leader / catman first. Use it to creep your jungle's small camp every minute (this alone gives +100 gpm roughly). Then get another creep after cooldown is up (minotaur / catman is best). With those 2 you can creep some hard camps too (Roughly +150 gpm). Finally, get a third creep and u can creep entire jungle. Over 200 gpm additionally if you do it right. Meanwhile you should go for firebrand -> bkb if necessary - > geo bane, then savage or wingbow or something. You can outcarry almost anything since your GPM should be through the roof if you do the jungle creeping correctly. Also you can dominate early/mid game since at level 6 you can rape most heroes mid / other lanes.

Tort - as you mentioned its a good pick. Just focus on getting ALOT of farm and owning them mid game. You become worthless way late game so end it before 40 minutes.

Drunken Master - obvious reasons. This hero is just fuckin insane. If I wanted 100% wnrate I'd just play him every game. He has everything you need. If enemy team isn't coordinated, you just get bulwark phase shieldbreaker and 1 shot people you find alone. IF they are, just keep farming. Get bkb riftshared shield bulwark etc. and rape them in teamfights.


What's unfortunate is all the old awesome heroes like SS / hag / DR just aren't as good anymore due to the public metagame of "oh we hold hands 24/7 and roam as 5 and gank mid and pick S2 heroes for mid which require no skill to do well with". But I think if you keep trying to play the old pre-2.0 pubstomp style in today's game you won't have anywhere near as good results.
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Dec 16 2011 08:34am
zephyr very easy to play, noob friendly hero
magebane-well if u get a slow start u can lose aka if u get ganked few times but then again is same with any hero mid
rev-not a very popular pick

rest yea i agree except hag/dr can still do very nice
ss can be owned by several ones u pointed out mid
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Dec 16 2011 09:23am
Only game I played with a zeph recently was vs RE4L

All I had to do was pick nomad, buy vestment and make shieldbreaker.

I was short lane and he was mid....

He free farmed for almost all game, was fed by mid and long lane, and still he was forced to CC because nomad 4 hit him.
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Dec 16 2011 11:47am
Actually, I would just play BP and BD modes. You'll get less retards who random like what happens in 1/3 all pick, you'll have serious players who pick based on team role and not individual want, you'll see less BRs, and you'll be able to ban or counter degenerate combos. The games will be more challenging but it will probably be more rewarding than playing AP.

I only play BD/BP when I solo queue on my high rated accounts.
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Dec 16 2011 12:22pm
Honestly when I want to win and bring my mmr up right now I play fucking dirty.

Keeper is at 80% win and my warbeast is at 70%, just from pushing. If you end a game with a 0-0-x with one of these two heros it means you won your team the game.

Keeper I rush arcane ring, gank bot with invis ulti, get a double 7/10 times and then get the first tower. If they get come back to lane go to another and push/team fight till you get that tower. Then concentrate on solo pushing.

Get arcane -> red boots-> bulwarks -> situational (mock,posthaste,pbox,pk,ect) The early gold you get for your team is usually enough to get them into fighting/pushing spirit so your team tends to work better with you this way.



And my favorite build, backdoorbeast.

Farm up abyssal skull and plated greaves then push a tower probably mid by there. Ignore everything that happens in the game, just fucking push. Get puzzle box next into lvl 3 and then bulwarks. During an average team fight including pub chasing after wards with
Plated, abyssal, pbox + bulwarks you can get a 2nt tier + tower n rax easily. And I want to stress this EASILY. Warbeast is by far the best pusher in the game.

This strat is a little more risky due to having to have a team that doesn't lose the game by 15-20 mins. If they can do that, and don't cc its game.


These strats are pretty much the same idea as playing a magebane/chronos and farming your balls off except it gains gold for your entire team and you are less likely to be hated by them for ignoring a team fight if you get a tower+ rather than just pushing a lane and farming instead of going to a losing team fight anyways.

Tips- With keeper wait for the counterpush. If your team was all at a tower but decided to back off because the other team showed up and is ready to push, wait a little bit back, stay invis and push that tower as soon as it is safe to do so. Eg the other team goes to push the lane to get your tower, back door that shit. Might even save you guys a losing team fight.
- Don't over farm. These builds aren't going to making you have 450+ but you will have lots of fucking gold from doing them effectively. You don't need to be in that jungle at 20+ mins, leave it for your team if they need the creeps.
- Pay attention to runes. If your on wb and theres a haste or invis kicking around, thats a free tower, grab it run up to empty lane, back door that shit and tp home.
- Carry tp stones and use all juke spots possible. 9/10 times you want to juke before you tp, learn the spots. If your keeper assume the enemy team has dust/wards and an eye at all times. Because they hate you, and want to fuck you up.
- Big big big team fights, get a fucking rax. -1500 gold swing is worth a melee rax.
- Push the easiest lane. Get as far away from the enemy team as possible to make sure you have enough time to take down a rax.
- Wait out the creep wave. If you come up to a 3rd tier at x:45 wait till x:07 or so to sneak into the base, you don't want those extra creeps doing damage to your little fuckers while ur chipping away.


Tl;dr pick keeper/warbeast and push ur balls off.
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Dec 16 2011 01:17pm
Thanks guys! Much appreciated =)
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Dec 16 2011 01:37pm
Zeph once had a 1s stun on gust, that was the good times.
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