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Jun 3 2015 12:43am
Farther, Son, Holy Ghost/Spirit: The trinity, if all 3 are "one", was Jesus praying to himself? Pray to the Father etc, so does that imply the Father is an actual thing or person aside from Jesus? The Son of God, but if they're all the same, it's a bit confusing. What's the difference between the two? I understand the Spirit, that we're with Him in "Spirit", but it's a bit confusing about the "Father", and then the "Son".
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Jun 3 2015 01:41pm
Quote (ius @ Jun 2 2015 11:43pm)
Farther, Son, Holy Ghost/Spirit: The trinity, if all 3 are "one", was Jesus praying to himself? Pray to the Father etc, so does that imply the Father is an actual thing or person aside from Jesus? The Son of God, but if they're all the same, it's a bit confusing. What's the difference between the two? I understand the Spirit, that we're with Him in "Spirit", but it's a bit confusing about the "Father", and then the "Son".


3 separate people
One triune God.

Jesus, the person was praying to the Father, the person.

I've heard it explained like ice water steam - 3 different forms
1+1+1 = 3
1x1x1 = 1
there's a company with 3 owners each being an employee as well - each owner with a different function but the company is one
really - I don't know.
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Jun 3 2015 02:28pm
...from the Athanasian Creed -

That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; Neither confounding the Persons; nor dividing the Essence. For there is one Person of the Father; another of the Son; and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, is all one; the Glory equal, the Majesty coeternal. Such as the Father is; such is the Son; and such is the Holy Ghost. The Father uncreated; the Son uncreated; and the Holy Ghost uncreated. The Father unlimited; the Son unlimited; and the Holy Ghost unlimited. The Father eternal; the Son eternal; and the Holy Ghost eternal. And yet they are not three eternals; but one eternal. As also there are not three uncreated; nor three infinites, but one uncreated; and one infinite. So likewise the Father is Almighty; the Son Almighty; and the Holy Ghost Almighty. And yet they are not three Almighties; but one Almighty. So the Father is God; the Son is God; and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not three Gods; but one God. So likewise the Father is Lord; the Son Lord; and the Holy Ghost Lord. And yet not three Lords; but one Lord. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity; to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord; So are we forbidden by the catholic religion; to say, There are three Gods, or three Lords. The Father is made of none; neither created, nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone; not made, nor created; but begotten. The Holy Ghost is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten; but proceeding. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Ghost, not three Holy Ghosts. And in this Trinity none is before, or after another; none is greater, or less than another. But the whole three Persons are coeternal, and coequal. So that in all things, as aforesaid; the Unity in Trinity, and the Trinity in Unity, is to be worshipped. He therefore that will be saved, let him thus think of the Trinity.

Furthermore it is necessary to everlasting salvation; that he also believe faithfully the Incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. For the right Faith is, that we believe and confess; that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and Man; God, of the Essence of the Father; begotten before the worlds; and Man, of the Essence of his Mother, born in the world. Perfect God; and perfect Man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting. Equal to the Father, as touching his Godhead; and inferior to the Father as touching his Manhood. Who although he is God and Man; yet he is not two, but one Christ. One; not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh; but by assumption of the Manhood by God. One altogether; not by confusion of Essence; but by unity of Person.
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Jun 3 2015 06:26pm
As important as it is, quoting the Athanasian Creed does nothing to address this question. It doesn't answer it directly, not to mention the language can be ambiguous.

The doctrine is that the Father, Son, and Holy spirit are all numerically identical to God but are not identical to each other. In this way the three are distinct, while there still remains only one God.

No matter how the Trinity is cashed out philosophically, every trinitarian will deny that Jesus was speaking to himself. This is because the Father and Son are distinct persons that are God or that comprise God.

If you are looking for more details on this, consider the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy article on the Trinity (http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/trinity). Be warned that it is college level reading and can be technical.

This post was edited by Lifesong on Jun 3 2015 06:26pm
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Jun 4 2015 02:27pm
Quote (Lifesong @ Jun 3 2015 05:26pm)
As important as it is, quoting the Athanasian Creed does nothing to address this question. It doesn't answer it directly, not to mention the language can be ambiguous.

The doctrine is that the Father, Son, and Holy spirit are all numerically identical to God but are not identical to each other. In this way the three are distinct, while there still remains only one God.

No matter how the Trinity is cashed out philosophically, every trinitarian will deny that Jesus was speaking to himself. This is because the Father and Son are distinct persons that are God or that comprise God.

If you are looking for more details on this, consider the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy article on the Trinity (http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/trinity). Be warned that it is college level reading and can be technical.


i graduated college and my reading level is a middle schoolers lol
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Jun 4 2015 05:23pm
Quote (leemyungbak @ Jun 4 2015 12:27pm)
i graduated college and my reading level is a middle schoolers lol


Then visit ReasonableFaith.org and find the Defenders 1 or Defenders 2 series on the Trinity.

Dr. William Lane Craig is a philosopher and this is the systematic theology class he teaches at his church. If you don't want to listen to the recordings there are transcripts to read. These are not as technical as my previous recommendation.

See if anything you find there is helpful.
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