As 1st Corinthians 14; 34-35:



Who exactly was Paul speaking to when he said this?

As you can see here: http://newlife.id.au/equality-and-gender-issues/interpretations-applications-1-cor-14_34-35/

"If Paul condones verbal ministry from women in chapter 11 it is very unlikely that he censures it in chapter 14. Paul was probably prohibiting a certain form of speech from the women in 14:34-35. Several theologians have tried to identify the type of speech that Paul appears to be disallowing."

Where exactly or how do we find what type of form of speech he was talking about when it blatantly says at Verse 33, " For God is not a God of disorder but of peace. As in all the congregations of the saints, 34 - women should remain silent in the churches".



At the start of 1st Corinthians 26, he says "What then shall we say, brothers?" So, it seems to me he was discussing the verses with his buddies, and should be taken literally or not is what i'm wondering.

Edit: To confirm that I'm not trolling: http://i.gyazo.com/3b4c572189c36494177865acf2cd82a4.png I have my bible out and seriously asking questions, so please, no troll posts.

This post was edited by HighschoolTurd on Jun 20 2014 06:27pm

at that time, women had a wicked tongue and kept babling everywhere they met another woman (in church too)

it's just common sense not to talk in church

This post was edited by the_rest on Jun 20 2014 10:58pm

1 Tim 2:8-15, reinforces those verses, and elaborates. 1 Tim 3 defines the qualifications to be a leader/elder in the church, and refers directly to men.

One thing to note, in Judaism and for most of the Gentiles, women weren't even allowed to attend church in this manner. I've read that what likely happened was some women took advantage of this new opportunity and were trying to "usurp" the authority of the early church, and so this was to reign that in.

Regarding what type of speech is referred to, from 1 Tim, one can ascertain that teaching and leadership roles over men is certainly restricted, while 1 Cor 11:5 makes it clear that praying or prophesying (spiritual gifts) are acceptable, provided they are not "flaunted" in a manner of authority over men (see the following verse 6 and 7 for an illustration of that, and again 1 Tim 2). Since teaching is one of the spiritual gifts, one can conclude certain ministries are certainly acceptable, such as teaching children in church.

As an aside, "the Law" referenced in 1 Cor 14:34 is referencing 1 Cor 14:21, which is a reference from Is 28:11,12.

Pretty much this. The widely accepted belief of scholars and theologians is that women of that time found great freedom (as they should) in Christianity and they were able to participate in a way that they were never permitted to before. With that new freedom came great ambition from women and many of them wanted to lead and even at times became loud and rebellious to the leaders and teachers of the church. Paul wanted to address this issue and reinforced the hierarchy of the family and the church. His intention was not to muffle them, but to instill the idea that men are to hold the senior leadership roles in the church and the family (God ordained this leadership in men). It was very likely that women were speaking out during services as well and making the worship time chaotic. We know that God is not a God of chaos and that reverence, humility, and respect are to be shown during a service.

This is not to say that women cannot hold leadership positions in the church. Romans 16:1 tells us that there were female deacons in the church. To me, a deacon is simply a servant that is given certain responsibilities within the church or ministries. I believe deacons (or ministry team leaders) should only be used when there is an active need within the church, and not seen merely as an ongoing church "office" position. The elders of the church on the other hand is a male position and is seen as an ongoing church leadership position with the sole responsibilities of prayer, teaching, leading, and shepherding. I believe the preaching minister should be an elder and for this reason (as well as a few others), women cannot be preaching ministers.

However, I believe women can serve in various roles (paid and unpaid) within the church that does not conflict with scripture.

I'm curious at how Isaiah 28, 11;12 "to whom he said, this is the resting place, let the weary rest and "this is the place of repose" -- but they would not listen.

is referencing to 1 cor 14:21?

On 1 cor 14:21, it says "In the Law it is written: "Through men of strange tongues and through the lips of foreigners I will speak to this people, but even then they will not listen to me," says the lord.

Is this the only Law Paul was talking about? Because it was after the semi colon and in parenthesis. (In my Legacy NIV Bible atleast). I would of never thought the rest of the verses are still to be taken as laws. When I first read through, I never thought of that.


In 1 Tim 12 why would Paul say "I do not permit a women to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent".

I agree with what 1 Tim 9 says, but I just don't understand if Paul is to be taken literally. Should we take what Paul says literally? Is he prophesying directly from God, or does he just ramble alot? Because what he has done is making it VERY easy for non-believers to nitpick and use him as a scapegoat to pull verses out of context.

I did more research on this and found this: http://versebyversecommentary.com/1-corinthians/1-corinthians-1434-35/




I just don't understand how Paul would encourage women to prophesize, then say that. It makes me seem like it was just him rambling and not "the law", but unfortunately, I am still trying to figure this one out.

And I wrote those verses out directly from the bible, so any errors, i apologize. I'm not copying or pasting verses anymore from online. I feel when I write them out, I remember them more.

This post was edited by HighschoolTurd on Jun 21 2014 12:06pm

What exactly is still unclear to you? The verses are pretty specific and both I and dune1 have explained it out further. There are always those that will change the word of God to tickle your ears, but the Bible also tells us that those are importers and not speaking the word.

edit: Regarding the verse in Isaiah, he prefaced with this because the people he was addressing sort of had "closed ears" on the matter. The word was plain to hear, but they did not listen. If you notice, he closes with the same type of challenge and confrontation to them, saying "who among you is truly holy enough to say otherwise?"

Also, you might have less confusion if you used a different translation, such as NASB or NKJV. The NIV is wrought with poor translations, and a questionable history regarding those whom were involved in the translation.

I think I'm confused at how the verses are referenced.

" "the Law" referenced in 1 Cor 14:34 is referencing 1 Cor 14:21, which is a reference from Is 28:11,12. "

How do we know that 1 Cor 14:34 is referring to 1 Cor 14:21? And then, how do we know that is referencing from Is 28: 11, 12?

I can also understand that Paul might have been trying to "reign that in" when he said that. But, that still makes me worried why he would even say that to begin with? That is why I don't know if we should take Paul literally or not. To even say that, if he was just upset at the women would still be a weird thing to say?
And if we shouldn't take Paul literally, than the non-believers who use him as a scapegoat and uses his words out of context, is ultimately untrue, because it not the word of God. Or, is Paul's words from the word of God? That is where I'm a bit confused.

This post was edited by HighschoolTurd on Jun 21 2014 01:11pm

Nothing anyone said (especially Paul) was just "rambling". All of what is written was inspired and serves a purpose.

Of course it's literal, he was writing a letter to the Corinthians addressing very specific issues and problems they were having in the early church. He started by admonishing them with scripture, the reference to Isaiah (again, read the NON-NIV version, that version is horrendous), and closed in a similar fashion with "Or was it you that the word of God came?".

He was admonishing them exactly the way you need to be, was it from you the word of God came for you to be questioning the order of Godly worship? That is what the entire segment is about, outlining Orderly Worship.
v38 "If anyone does not recognize this, he is not recognized."
v40 "But all things should be done decently and in order."