If God does exist, and if he Created all this Does that make him evil cos if he created all this he created Lucifer right? So if he created Lucifer then he basicly created evil so does that make god evil?

He created Lucifer as good... In fact, Lucifer was the highest of the angels.

God created the potential for evil, and since evil is a lack of good just as darkness is a lack of light, it existed.

Having free will, Lucifer rebelled against God, and was cast down to the Earth.



Jesus is coming back!

This post was edited by Torm1 on Jan 25 2011 07:59pm

that ^

God created all things clean and pure. It is our free will that created evil.

And yes, God has done evil things too, but His actions were for the better of mankind. Doesn't make sense to call God evil for that.

In fact, God loves us too much banish us all from eternal life, so He gave us Jesus, that we can become pure again like it was intended.

Ezekiel 28:15 (King James Version) Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Lucifer warped himself, chose evil and entered death.




No

Under this basic idea, evil is that which is outside God's character and intentions.

so the story goes, in the words of god " fuck... I fucked up."

verse?

Isaiah 14:12-14

12How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

And

Ezekiel 28:12-19

12 “Son of man, take up a lament concerning the king of Tyre and say to him: ‘This is what the Sovereign LORD says:

“‘You were the seal of perfection,
full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
13 You were in Eden,
the garden of God;
every precious stone adorned you:
carnelian, chrysolite and emerald,
topaz, onyx and jasper,
lapis lazuli, turquoise and beryl.[a]
Your settings and mountings[b] were made of gold;
on the day you were created they were prepared.
14 You were anointed as a guardian cherub,
for so I ordained you.
You were on the holy mount of God;
you walked among the fiery stones.
15 You were blameless in your ways
from the day you were created
till wickedness was found in you.
16 Through your widespread trade
you were filled with violence,
and you sinned.
So I drove you in disgrace from the mount of God,
and I expelled you, guardian cherub,
from among the fiery stones.
17 Your heart became proud
on account of your beauty,
and you corrupted your wisdom
because of your splendor.
So I threw you to the earth;
I made a spectacle of you before kings.
18 By your many sins and dishonest trade
you have desecrated your sanctuaries.
So I made a fire come out from you,
and it consumed you,
and I reduced you to ashes on the ground
in the sight of all who were watching.
19 All the nations who knew you
are appalled at you;
you have come to a horrible end
and will be no more.’”

Yes, unfortunately, that does make god evil. I could write an argument outlining why the christian conception of god is evil, but i don't really feel like it. You are already on the right track of realizing why god is evil if he did create this universe.

Jesus = Yeshua = "YHWH saves"

Colossians 1:10-25 (King James Version)

10 That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;

11 Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;

12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:

13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:

25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;


Ephesians 3:9 (King James Version) And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:


Matthew 12:50 (King James Version) For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

---------

Volumes of Scripture could be added to this.

If YHWH is evil; Jesus is evil doing YHWH's evil works and saying evil YHWH edicts about unconditionally loving people and ....

Seriously, Gnosticism(knowledge of the "divine"...) has nothing to do with Christianity(personally knowing God, through the sacrifice of Jesus).

You heart has ~40k neurons. Get in touch with them.

The Father that this verse refers to can refer to the true God, the God that Jesus came from. In Gnosticism God himself is who is the original creator of the universe, as YHVH created everything according to the reflection of the Pleroma he saw. So God is a creator even if he didn't directly create it as YHVH did, and so, by extension Jesus created everything because he is part of God.

I don't accept texts that claim that Jesus is YHVH, and I don't know of any texts that directly state YHVH is Jesus. I believe in this text you quoted they use the greek word for God, which is not the hebrew word for YHVH.

Gnosticism is a form of Christianity, it just has different texts and a different way of going about knowing God.

But I did not say that YHVH is evil solely because I believe Gnosticism is right, I came to that conclusion on my own before I even knew about Gnostiicsm. And even if YHVH weren't the true god, if god is an omnipotent, omniscient creator then he must be evil.