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Jan 20 2011 01:39am
For a long time I have considered myself to be an atheist. I have had no faith or belief in god at all. But I believe I am finding faith, and in turn god.
I have a few questions which go out to the beliefs of Christianity in general, and if any of you are well versed, and can help answers these, you may in turn help me find god and christianity.



Is life ultimately just a test? (ultimately our lives & actions determine our fate of heaven or hell don't they?)

If life is a test, how is it that those who repeatedly commit some or not all of the seven deadly sins can be considered good people?
for instance, an extremely overweight and lazy person (gluttony and sloth) can attend church and call themselves a good person in general, not committing any of the other sins.
Are they going to heaven even though they are directly live in disobedience of the words and laws of god?

If someone like the above were to be granted the gift of heaven and everlasting peace, then why would god create rules then allow those that consciously break them into heaven?

Can we really consider ourselves "true" Christians if we do not completely abide by the laws of God himself?

If God is not really that "harsh" to put it in common terms, then why would he make rules for people to live by, only for them to willingly break them, but then ask for forgiveness
and allow his will to be bent, by giving an easement or gray area of "Well, you're sorry for doing it even though you Knew the will of God, and then went against it."

Also, It is (sadly) proven fact that corruption has run through Christianity and religion over the years, Whether it was in the dark ages, or current scandal. How am I to know that the Bible itself
is pure and is as it was intended when it was first written? If Moses did solely write the original 5 books, how can it describe his death, and also describe him as "the most humble man who ever lived.". There are Tons of other inconsistencies in the bible. Can it not be wrong? the bible teaches that the earth is flat, and it has been amended. If it was incorrect, can it truly be the word of god, and does it truly deserve to be preached and perpetuated?

And what of the classic tales of the bible that are often told to children? Jonah and the whale, Noahs ark? These things are physically impossible, and obviously ridiculous from an outside mutual point of view.
These works of fiction truly cannot be taught as fact can they? Because Story's like that Begin to make me question the validity of the bible itself.

I want you to keep in mind, I truly am not trying to discredit or contest christian beliefs at all. I am trying to understand them so i can embrace them. These are questions i have come across when attempting to
embrace Christianity. Please help me understand. And thank you for your time and insight.
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Jan 20 2011 02:28am
Quote (HarlequinCrest @ Jan 20 2011 02:39am)
For a long time I have considered myself to be an atheist. I have had no faith or belief in god at all. But I believe I am finding faith, and in turn god.
I have a few questions which go out to the beliefs of Christianity in general, and if any of you are well versed, and can help answers these, you may in turn help me find god and christianity.



Is life ultimately just a test? (ultimately our lives & actions determine our fate of heaven or hell don't they?)

If life is a test, how is it that those who repeatedly commit some or not all of the seven deadly sins can be considered good people?
for instance, an extremely overweight and lazy person (gluttony and sloth) can attend church and call themselves a good person in general, not committing any of the other sins.
Are they going to heaven even though they are directly live in disobedience of the words and laws of god?

If someone like the above were to be granted the gift of heaven and everlasting peace, then why would god create rules then allow those that consciously break them into heaven?

Can we really consider ourselves "true" Christians if we do not completely abide by the laws of God himself?

If God is not really that "harsh" to put it in common terms, then why would he make rules for people to live by, only for them to willingly break them, but then ask for forgiveness
and allow his will to be bent, by giving an easement or gray area of "Well, you're sorry for doing it even though you Knew the will of God, and then went against it."

Also, It is (sadly) proven fact that corruption has run through Christianity and religion over the years, Whether it was in the dark ages, or current scandal. How am I to know that the Bible itself
is pure and is as it was intended when it was first written? If Moses did solely write the original 5 books, how can it describe his death, and also describe him as "the most humble man who ever lived.".  There are Tons of other inconsistencies in the bible. Can it not be wrong? the bible teaches that the earth is flat, and it has been amended. If it was incorrect, can it truly be the word of god, and does it truly deserve to be preached and perpetuated?

And what of the classic tales of the bible that are often told to children? Jonah and the whale, Noahs ark? These things are physically impossible, and obviously ridiculous from an outside mutual point of view.
These works of fiction truly cannot be taught as fact can they? Because Story's like that Begin to make me question the validity of the bible itself.

I want you to keep in mind, I truly am not trying to discredit or contest christian beliefs at all. I am trying to understand them so i can embrace them. These are questions i have come across when attempting to
embrace Christianity. Please help me understand. And thank you for your time and insight.


God wants to be friends.

He did the work.

Anyone who concentrates on do's and donot's in any friendship misses it.

The ark Noah built seems quite seaworthy to me. It's closer to a barge tho. Maybe he was hauling stuff.

Actually, would any of your statements trouble you, if you could have a 1 on 1 with God?

Seems finding that Guy might be your goal.

<3
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Jan 20 2011 02:39am
Quote (WhirlingDervish @ Jan 20 2011 01:28am)
God wants to be friends.

He did the work.

Anyone who concentrates on do's and donot's in any friendship misses it.

The ark Noah built seems quite seaworthy to me. It's closer to a barge tho. Maybe he was hauling stuff.

Actually, would any of your statements trouble you, if you could have a 1 on 1 with God?

Seems finding that Guy might be your goal.

<3


Your statement is sort of vague, sorry if i don't fully understand it.
Are you telling me I shouldn't focus so much on whats right or wrong according to the bible, and more just on my relationship with God?
That once i find God, and truly have faith, the rest comes naturally?
And yes that is my goal. To find God in my heart and to truly have faith. If i found faith within myself, (Which i don't think it can come from anywhere else).
But these are the things keeping me from having faith. These are the seeds of doubt within me. Am i to just overlook them?

This post was edited by HarlequinCrest on Jan 20 2011 02:40am
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Jan 20 2011 03:58am
Quote (HarlequinCrest @ Jan 20 2011 03:39am)
Your statement is sort of vague, sorry if i  don't fully understand it.
Are you telling me I shouldn't focus so much on whats right or wrong according to the bible, and more just on my relationship with God?
That once i find God, and truly have faith, the rest comes naturally?
And yes that is my goal. To find God in my heart and to truly have faith. If i found faith within myself, (Which i don't think it can come from anywhere else).
But these are the things keeping me from having faith. These are the seeds of doubt within me. Am i to just overlook them?


You grasped it quite well.

Knowing God is the most important.

I understood little, until I was able to ask Him as a friend.
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Jan 20 2011 03:23pm
Quote (WhirlingDervish @ Jan 20 2011 09:58am)
You grasped it quite well.

Knowing God is the most important.

I understood little, until I was able to ask Him as a friend.


how did you get to ask him as a friend if you dont mind me asking?
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Jan 21 2011 01:47am
Quote (haloneya @ Jan 20 2011 04:23pm)
how did you get to ask him as a friend if you dont mind me asking?


Quote (haloneya @ Dec 28 2010 03:37pm)
what I like to do is debate really :)


I don't mind you asking and I have nothing useful for you personally, under your pretenses.
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Jan 21 2011 02:04am
Quote (HarlequinCrest @ Jan 20 2011 02:39am)
Your statement is sort of vague, sorry if i don't fully understand it.
Are you telling me I shouldn't focus so much on whats right or wrong according to the bible, and more just on my relationship with God?
That once i find God, and truly have faith, the rest comes naturally?
And yes that is my goal. To find God in my heart and to truly have faith. If i found faith within myself, (Which i don't think it can come from anywhere else).
But these are the things keeping me from having faith. These are the seeds of doubt within me. Am i to just overlook them?


the benefit of christianity and relgion in general is its vaugeness. it allows anyone to take something and adjust it to their context... it is more or less a message that is universal; making it easy for all to feel and understand.
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Jan 21 2011 02:23am
Quote (om3ga @ Jan 21 2011 03:04am)
the benefit of christianity and relgion in general is its vaugeness. it allows anyone to take something and adjust it to their context... it is more or less a message that is universal; making it easy for all to feel and understand.


I said nor implied anything of the sort.
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Jan 21 2011 12:21pm
Quote (HarlequinCrest @ 20 Jan 2011 02:39)
For a long time I have considered myself to be an atheist. I have had no faith or belief in god at all. But I believe I am finding faith, and in turn god.
I have a few questions which go out to the beliefs of Christianity in general, and if any of you are well versed, and can help answers these, you may in turn help me find god and christianity.



Is life ultimately just a test? (ultimately our lives & actions determine our fate of heaven or hell don't they?)
I see where you're coming from on this, and I guess in one sense you could look at it that way. I don't really like to look at life in that light though.

If life is a test, how is it that those who repeatedly commit some or not all of the seven deadly sins can be considered good people? the whole premise of the bible is that nobody is really a good person in the sense that we're all law breakers and we all fall short of the standard God has set before us. It's why we need a savior, a rescuer.
for instance, an extremely overweight and lazy person (gluttony and sloth) can attend church and call themselves a good person in general, not committing any of the other sins.
Are they going to heaven even though they are directly live in disobedience of the words and laws of god? this is a bit of a cop-out answer but whether they go to heaven or not is truly only known by them and God. We can look at the pattern of their life and what they say and assume they will go to heaven, but some people really only go to church for extremely selfish, arrogant reasons. To look like good people. It has nothing to do with loving God or anyone else. Those people, I don't think, will go to heaven. Jesus spoke about those people saying that he will rebuke them and say that he never knew them. That said, We, as human beings, are simply not perfect. It's a reality that just is, and God understands that. It's why he sent Jesus. I think that more than anything else you do in life, if you genuinely love God and accept/love Jesus as his son and savior you are granted life in heaven.

If someone like the above were to be granted the gift of heaven and everlasting peace, then why would god create rules then allow those that consciously break them into heaven?
a fair question. I think it's partially answered in my previous answer

Can we really consider ourselves "true" Christians if we do not completely abide by the laws of God himself?
yes
If God is not really that "harsh" to put it in common terms, then why would he make rules for people to live by, only for them to willingly break them, but then ask for forgiveness
and allow his will to be bent, by giving an easement or gray area of "Well, you're sorry for doing it even though you Knew the will of God, and then went against it."
I apologize for this simplistic answer but I'm starting to run real short on time. There are 2 important characteristics of Gods personality you need to take into consideration. His Justice, and his Love. His justice is satisfied in the sacrifice of his son on our behalf. The reason he ever allowed such a thing to happen, is his love. I'm sorry this is a short answer and I'd like to explain more sometime but I can't right now I'm running late to pick a friend up
Also, It is (sadly) proven fact that corruption has run through Christianity and religion over the years, Whether it was in the dark ages, or current scandal. How am I to know that the Bible itself
is pure and is as it was intended when it was first written? If Moses did solely write the original 5 books, how can it describe his death, and also describe him as "the most humble man who ever lived.".  There are Tons of other inconsistencies in the bible. Can it not be wrong? the bible teaches that the earth is flat, and it has been amended. If it was incorrect, can it truly be the word of god, and does it truly deserve to be preached and perpetuated?
I guess you'll have to just take a step of faith on that one. I don't think the bible ever taught the earth was flat, it did make mentions of the earth being flat but to me, whether it was or not (when spoken about in the bible) is an irrelevant matter and to bring it up is nitpicking a bit. If God is God, then I think it's fair to trust him that he wouldn't let it get fucked up, excuse my language. And yes, it is a sad sad reality that corruption has stained the history of the church, just like every other secular or religious part of human history. Truth is, wicked people will use whatever means at their disposal to achieve their goals, and the bible and christianity and the bible is no exception. There are lots of people who say they are christians, but really aren't

And what of the classic tales of the bible that are often told to children? Jonah and the whale, Noahs ark? These things are physically impossible, and obviously ridiculous from an outside mutual point of view.simply looked at they can seem ridiculous, but miracles happen on a daily basis that science can't explain. Why do people only question the miracles in the bible? Not only that, but there is actual scientific evidence to suggest the earth was actually covered with water at some point. A global flood
These works of fiction truly cannot be taught as fact can they? Because Story's like that Begin to make me question the validity of the bible itself.

I want you to keep in mind, I truly am not trying to discredit or contest christian beliefs at all. I am trying to understand them so i can embrace them. These are questions i have come across when attempting to
embrace Christianity. Please help me understand. And thank you for your time and insight.
nothing you said offends me. I think it's good when people constructively question beliefs, because at the end of the day, if they can find a good answer, it strengthens their belief. And that's not necessarily a bad thing. And Now that I'm sufficiently late, it's time for me to go. Sorry if my answers aren't what you were looking for or adequate


My answers are bolded.
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Jan 21 2011 01:52pm
Quote (WhirlingDervish @ Jan 21 2011 02:23am)
I said nor implied anything of the sort.


was my take on how the message of our lord is spread and structured, not yours. sorry for the confusion friend.
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