I constantly struggle with the concepts of predestination vs free will. If anyone has the time, I'd appreciate a few Bible references and some explanation of why you believe in either free will or predestination.

Thanks!

I believe there is only a problem if you believe God is omniscient - as it would negate free will.

For example:

There are two objects on a table. An apple and an orange.

God is omniscient, and therefore knows with 100% absolute certainty you will eat the orange. Is it possible to eat the apple?

If yes - Then God is not omniscient, and you have freewill.
If no - Then one does not have free will, since you cannot eat the apple.

This post was edited by Aurorae on Mar 9 2010 11:03pm

God knows everything you're going to do before you do it because He knows all. But that doesn't negate free will. Just because God knows what we're going to do doesn't mean He's forcing our hands to do it.

My husband is sleeping so I will look up the Bible verses tomorrow. I don't want to turn on a light and disturb him

This does not make sense. If he knows your action, then your action is determined. You cannot vary or you must concede that he is not omniscient as Aurorae suggested. But whatever. I'm paranoid in this sub-forum. Any modicum of doubt or disagreement and they warn ur ass. /slinkbacktogreenerpasture

It makes perfect sense to me. Just because someone knows what you're going to do doesn't mean you do so even if it's predetermined to someone else it's not to you. You have free will to make the choices you want. God doesn't force us to do anything, if He did this would be a perfect world.

I don't think you need to be paranoid. Don't flame or be nasty and you won't have problems. You can have a discussion without name calling and being insulting

Look up the schedule of the next train/bus/subway whatever going by your house. You know where its going to be and where its going. Is the driver not acting of their free will?

This is a faulty analogy because humans are not omniscient. When omniscience enters the picture, you have the issue I showed here:

Amusing that you'd make this analogy when our previous analogy was of apples and oranges Not to be rude, but I have next to zero interest in discussing this. Ty for your input though. Not sure why I posted here in the first place, but I heard in GC there was a new forum so I hada take a peek.

You have a damned good idea he'll be there, but there's never 100% certainty.

God knows with absolute certainty exactly what you're going to do, before you do it (down to the breaths you take), so this goes beyond common likelihood.

We were created with the free will, to either chose our predestination or reject it.

In the beginning of Genesis, you can read of the original design and how Adam and Eve, walked with God in the garden.

You have to also notice, God placed one choice, in the tree of knowledge of good and evil, that would end this relationship and end the predestination by free will.

Note: in relationship = one way out

The idea is saturated throughout the Bible if you look for it.

Deuteronomy 30:19 (King James Version) I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

There always seems to be two choices and God always tosses us the right one.

Note: out of relationship = one way in

Matthew 7:13-14 (King James Version)

13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

John 14:6-7 (King James Version)

6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

Even if someone totally grasps the reasoning back to God, it takes an act of free will to do so.

Matthew 22:14 (King James Version) For many are called, but few are chosen.

Even if you embrace what Jesus had to say, you still have a choice between embracing, His teachings as something good to live by or an actually relationship with Him.

John 1:12 (King James Version) But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Last passage to meditate on...

Matthew 7:22-23 (King James Version)

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.