Why is it so inconceivable that there is someone out there greater than us, tinkering with us in much the same way that we tinker with single celled organisms in a petri dish? Why is it easier to believe in extraterrestrials than it is in a creator? Is it the absence of a god figure that draws you towards it? Because there is actually very little science that backs it up. It rests mostly on suppositions and assumptions, much like you've pointed out religions do, time and again. Why is it easier to believe in macroevolution even when the fossil record shows only very light, speculative evidence on it, and massive evidence against it?




One picture is a bust of what scientists believe peking man, an "intermediate form" looked like. The other is a picture of a present day person. Do they really look like they're from a different species?

There is no 'massive evidence' against evolution. Sorry.

The gross absence of intermediary forms is massive evidence against macroevolution. It's why proponents of it have had to make up new theories to explain it, such as punctuated equilibrium.

Just because things look the same doesn't mean they can reproduce with each other. If they can't reproduce with each other, they aren't the same species.

"...very light, speculative evidence...", "massive evidence against it." Wow. Like, wow...

Has there been any evidence supporting anything in the bible or God? Like, one thing...?

And what evidence is there against evolution...? Like, if you only measure a theory's legitimacy by the number of proven fossils or whatever - but get to make up how many fossils it takes to prove it - that's retarded. If there are 2 million documented fossils that are at some museum, can you just ignore those and say it has to be 3 million? I'll say it again. ONLY WITH RELIGION CAN SOMEONE DENY A TANGIBLE OBJECT IS IN FRONT OF THEIR FACE WHEN SOMEONE ELSE IS HOLDING IT THERE.

WHY DO PEOPLE THINK OF THE SUPERNATURAL FIRST WHEN THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND SOMETHING!? JESUS CHRIST!! I am SO glad there are people in the world that aren't religious... like, WOW. We would still be living in huts made out of mud and sticks. If they saw stone but didn't know how to create it and just depended on God to keep naturally making it we would be fucking NO WHERE.

Even if there was only "very light, speculative evidence," (which isn't true...there's tons of evidence) isn't that more than religion and God have? If you say yes, then why do you choose to believe in religion and God? Because you were raised that way? Because your mom and dad depended on a book or guidance from a celestial being to raise their child? Why don't you think some big rock is "God" instead of the being God? Is it because that's the religion you grew up with?

Don't worry I think us non-believers are going to stop soon... I haven't really seen any other people post in this forum all day. I think religion is important for young people that don't already have a clear view of how to treat themselves and other people. I understand that believing in something when you can't believe in yourself is needed at some points, for some people. I don't want to scare people away from this if they really need something like this right now. I, and I think the others' main target was the people that are still believing in this kind of stuff when they are adults. But, for the adults that have been raised with this religion (even though there are thousands of other religions whose followers all think theirs is correct), it's highly unlikely that they would actually admit to themselves that what they believe in is absurd - even if they did start to believe more of evolution, big bang, etc. It's probably just too late.

This post was edited by vinster on Sep 8 2010 10:43pm

For the guy with the cold-blooded/warm-blooded argument, you've strayed from your original point as to why homeotherms could never arise from poikilotherms. Theres pretty distinct advantage to being able to regulate your own body temperature, as you can then access a much wider range of climates and develop the ability to change large changes in temperature. So what innate features do poikilotherms have precludes the ability for homeothermy to arise? Do cold-blooded livers explode if they get warm enough? Theres nothing innately different about the organs of a cold-blooded animal and a warm-blooded animal as you previously suggested. In fact, unlike your last post saying it would be possible for poikiltherms to arise from homeotherms (Which is silly when you consider how enzymes work only over a specific temperature range), another major driving force for the development of homeothermy is fungal resistance.

Can I just throw something out there for those who don't believe in evolution?

Lets assume for a second that evolution is false. Absolutely 100% false. How does that make creationism true? What support does the theory have besides the Bible?

How do you know that the two are unable to reproduce? How would scientists know something like that?



There aren't 2 million fossils, there are maybe 10 or so, and most of those could be compared to present day skeleton and reveal nearly identical skeletal construction. How scientists manage to extrapolate from those that they were a different species lies mostly in their own bias. Take a walk down the street in any city, and you'll find at least one person with a smaller head, one person who's stooped over, and so on. That doesn't make those people a different species. People see what they want to see, and macroevolution proponents are no exception to the rule.



Actually, many of history's most famous and influential inventors were religious. Isaac Newton was Anglican. Albert Einstein was Jewish. Thomas Jefferson was Episcopalian. Here's a whole list of them:http://www.adherents.com/adh_influ.html



I believe in a creator because there has yet to be a theory which does justice to the complexity of life, and the fact that Earth has all of the conditions required for it to flourish. It is easier, and more logical for me to believe in an organizing hand than to believe that all that complexity came about by chance. As for why I believe in Jesus Christ, you're right, I was raised that way. If I were raised Islamic, I'd likely believe in Islam. Does that make me naive? No more so than your willingness to believe that your grandfather^1950873105613986150713 was an ape.



I don't understand where this condescension comes from on your part. Overall, religion has proven to be a positive, driving force in all aspects of history. In early development, it formed the basis for government the foundation for civilizations. In the present, it continues to provide comfort, relief, and guidance to individuals, as well as support for entire communities. People who participate in some sort of religion aren't necessarily compensating for something missing in their lives. They are connecting to something bigger than themselves.

Homeotherms must have bodily functions that regulate their temperature, allowing them to heat or cool themselves. As a result, their organs function only within a slim temperature range. Poikilotherms on the other hand, function in a wider temperature range, albeit more sluggishly in cooler temperatures. In small changes (say, over the course of millions of years), for a Poikilotherm, the ability to regulate body temperature would have to evolve slowly. Small changes from poikilothermy to homeothermy would translate into a gradually decreasing reliance on environmental heat and rapidly increasing need to consume food. In the short run, that sort of evolution would lead to making an individual less competitive, rather than more competitive. As for resistance to funguses and bacteria, homeotherms evolved greater resistance because by nature of being consistently warm, their bodies are more suitable targets for various parasites. Poikilotherms with their rapidly shifting body temperatures are much less hospitable hosts.

As for what the implications of evolution being false would mean for creationism, absolutely nothing. I believe in creationism because, as i said previously, there are no theories out there which can logically explain the complexities of both the composition of the earth and the complexity of life.

Subdue,

"Lol if you're going to talk about what God sent people to do, how many times were people sent by God to massacre their enemies?"

Israel was God's chosen people at that time to be the ones that his message is given. Now, God sent Israel to war with canaan's inhabitants because the land was promised to them. Back then, do you actually think that Israel could just walk into the Moabite and Phillistine and other camps and say, "Ya'll need to get out of our land, because God gave us this land." OFC NOT, those people will continue to fight Israel until the end of time for that land. Not only would they war, but if God allowed survivors to live, they would forever be vengeful of Israel. So, to put it this way, God is not limited in time, he knew that if Israel was to allow these people to live, it would cause huge problems in the end.

God knew each and every one of those Canaan inhabitant's true hearts, he does not leave any stone unturned, if you look at the story of Rahab, she was from Jericho, she was a pagan at the time, but God doesn't see just the present, he sees the future as well, he knew Rahab was going to be in the lineage of Jesus Christ himself, so he spared her, that's just one example of God has a reason for everything

This post was edited by Conviction on Sep 9 2010 02:30am

lold @ abos

e/ those pictures just show they did not evolve like the rest of us.

This post was edited by ZachFreeman on Sep 9 2010 03:26am

hate to tel yah bud, but they found a large human foot print next to a dinosaur footprint with a rock with air bubbles in it, and it had 2x the amount of oxygen, because it had never rained before that.
All of the dinosaur bones are found in sedimentary rock, which indicated by itself that water was present. Unless all dinosaurs can swim, it only makes sense that obviously something had to happen that wiped them out, that includes water.