Quote (bryce722 @ Feb 25 2011 02:04pm)

I honestly do not know why you are quoting that passage. It clearly shows gentiles who have not been baptized with water who have received the holy spirit. you have no defense for this.

1 peter 3:21 NLT
And that water is a picture of baptism, which now saves you, not by removing dirt from your body, but as a response to God from[a] a clean conscience. It is effective because of the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

1 peter 3:21 NIV
and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God.[a] It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

Quote (Kisssofdeath @ Feb 11 2011 11:25am)

Where to start. I guess we should start with what the word baptize means.

The word baptize comes from the Greek word "baptizo" and literally means, "to dip, to immerse, to plunge." In addition to the literal meaning of the word, immersion is practiced because it was the practice of the church in apostolic times. Still further, only immersion conforms to the description of baptisms as given by the apostle Paul in Romans 6:3-5 where he speaks of it as a burial and resurrection.

Next, what is the purpose of baptism?


This is a very important question, and the answer to it has eternal significance. The following is a brief list and explanation of several New Testament passages pertaining to the purpose and result of baptism.

In Mark 16:15-16, Jesus said "Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned." From this text, Jesus said the purpose of baptism is to save the soul. Baptism is the proper response to hearing and believing the gospel. Peter said "baptism now saves you" in 1 Peter 3:21. To answer your question Kamikizzle, if one doesn't believe then there is obviously no need to seek baptism is there? For example, if I told you, "if you come in my house and sit down at the kitchen table you will receive food, but if you do not come into my house then you will not receive food". Sitting down at the kitchen table is irrelevant at that point because the first condition has not been met. Another example would be, "I am a physician, and everyone on the planet has a deadly disease. The only cure for the disease is to pass through a machine in my office. Therefore, it may be rightfully said, "Whosoever comes to my office and passes through the machine shall live, but whosoever will not come to my office shall die." Do I have to mention "and does not pass through the machine" for people to understand the necessity of coming to the office AND passing through the machine? To ask the question is to answer.

"He who believes and is baptized shall be saved." This is not difficult to understand. Jesus specifically joined faith in the gospel message and baptism to salvation. The two verbs are joined by the conjunction "and" which places equal value on each action as necessary to receive salvation. Have an English teacher diagram Mark 16:16 and then ask him is both belief and baptism are necessary to be saved.

Consider also the situation in Numbers 21 and the fiery serpents. Anyone bitten by one of these serpents had to go to where Moses had lifted up the brass serpent and look upon it in order to be saved. If Moses had said, "Whosoever comes to the brass serpent and looks upon it shall live, but whosoever does not come to the brass serpent shall die," do you think people would understand the necessity of both? Then why do people refuse to understand Mark 16:16? It's not that difficult! I can't put it any simplier than that. You either except it or you don't.

Baptism is the means by which one becomes a disciple: "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age" (Matthew 28:19-20). The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch (Acts 11:26). Therefore, baptism is the means be which one becomes a Christian.

Baptism is the place where the washing away of sins takes place: "And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord' (Acts 22:16). Baptism is also here identified as the means by which one calls upon the name of the Lord (Acts 2:21; Romans 10:13). Revelation 1:5 says we are washed from our sins in the blood of Jesus. Therefore, it must be through baptism that the blood of Jesus is contacted.

Baptism is the place where remission of sins takes place: "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" (Acts 2:38)."For the remission of sins" means "to receive remission of sins," as Jesus said He shed His blood "for the remission of sins" (Matthew 26:28). This verse also shows us that it is in baptism that we receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

Baptism is the means by which one is justified by God's grace: "But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life" (Titus 3:4-7).

Note the phrase, "He saved us through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit " "Regeneration" literally means "new birth." So the new birth involves a washing, and it is accompanied by the work of the Holy Spirit. (Compare with previous notes on Acts 2:38)

This is what Jesus meant when He spoke of being "born again" in John 3:3. Jesus explained what being "born again" meant in John 3:5 - it is being born of water and Spirit. Note the presence of washing (baptism) and the Holy Spirit are found in all three texts.

Baptism is the means by which one expresses his faith in God to forgive. Colossians 2:12 says we are buried with Christ in baptism and raised through faith in the operation of God who raised Jesus from the dead. (Compare with Romans 6:3-11.)

Colossians 2:12 also explains how we receive the circumcision made without hands described in Colossians 2:11. Circumcision was the covenant God made between Himself and His people. Baptism is God's covenant for men today to become His children. It is in baptism that we are recognized and identified as children of God.

Finally, baptism is for the purpose of being in Christ: "For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ" (Galations 3:27). I must be "in Christ" to be a new creation (2 Corinthians 5:17). I must be "in Christ" if I am to be a partaker of all spiritual blessings (Ephesians 1:3). There is no condemnation for those who are "in Christ" (Romans 8:1). Thus, baptism is vital to receive all these benefits.

Now there seem to be this issue about why water is needed.


God told Noah to build an ark. The apostle Peter wrote that eight souls or persons were saved in that ark by water (1 Peter 3:20). Then Peter wrote, "The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ" (1 Peter 3:21).

Not Saved by Water from Water

Noah and his wife, their three sons and their wives were the eight people who were saved in the ark by water. They were not saved by water from water! They were saved from water by the ark (Hebrews 11:7). But, they were saved by water from something! From what were they saved by water? They were saved by water from a wicked, sinful world of people!

Of that sinful world, Moses wrote, "And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in all the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually" (Genesis 6:5). The waters of the flood destroyed that world of exceedingly wicked people. The waters of the flood came between that wicked world and the cleansed world following that flood! Therefore, Noah and his family were saved from that wicked world by water!

In What Sense Are We Saved by Water?

We are saved by water in the same sense that the blind man of John 9 received his sight by water. Jesus told that blind man to wash his eyes in the water of the pool of Siloam. When he did so, he received his sight. Of course, the Lord Jesus gave him his sight. The water of the pool did not give him his sight, but Christ gave him his sight when he did what Christ told him to do.

Even so, water does not wash away the sins of one when he is baptized in water. Christ takes away his sins when he does what Christ tells him to do by being baptized in water. His doing what Christ tells him to do involves water. That is the only sense in which water saves sinners.

The Blood of Christ Saves

The blood of Jesus Christ saves, but it saves in Christ. "In whom (Christ) we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace" (Ephesians 1:7).

The reason baptism saves is because in being baptized one gets into Christ where the blood of Christ saves! Since water is involved in one's being baptized into Christ, then water is involved in one's reaching the blood of Christ.

To reach the blood of Christ in baptism obviously just means that one reaches the forgiveness of God Almighty which he gives because Christ shed his blood or gave his life for our sins. Jesus made forgiveness of sins available for everyone when he died on Calvary's cross. Those who are baptized into Christ receive what Christ made available when he died.

One who knows that Jesus said, "He that believeth ad is baptized shall be saved" could not have a clear conscience before God until after he is baptized. Therefore, when he is baptized, he is seeking for, or craving, a clear conscience before God.

What Is "The Like Figure"?

After saying Noah and his family were saved by water, Peter said, "The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us..." "Like figure" of this text is from the Greek word antitupou. This word is put in English or anglicized as antitype.

There are many types in the Old Testament. When a lamb was sacrificed for sins, it was a type of Christ, the Lamb of God (John 1:29) who was sacrificed for our sins (Hebrews 10:1-10). A literal lamb offered in sacrifice under the Old Covenant was a type. Jesus being offered in sacrifice for our sins was the antitype of that Old Testament type.

Peter said our being saved by baptism is the antitype of eight souls being saved in the ark by water. This all obviously means that just as the water of the great flood came between the old world of wickedness and the new and cleansed world following that flood, even so the water of baptism comes between the world of sin and the new world of righteousness in Christ Jesus. "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold all things are become new" (2 Corinthians 5:17).

The person in Christ got into Christ by being baptized into Christ (Galatians 3:27; Romans 6:3-4). So, the water of baptism comes between the old world of sin and the new world in Christ Jesus.

One last thing about Acts 2:38 when Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. What did he say to do? Repent AND be baptizedand for what,...for the forgiveness of your sins. Again, repent and baptized are joined together placing equal importance on both as a condition of forgiveness. Is it not logical to then say if one is not baptized they will not receive forgiveness of their sins?

Somebody is going to have to do some scripture digging to prove to me that baptism is not need for salvation. I have given much proof here of why it is needed. Someone give me sound proof why it is not. Remember if God says it once only once are we not to obey his commands? A person cannot pick and choose what he wants to believe. If God says it who are we to call him a liar.

One last thing, Nate85 yours is easy. "scripturally" There.

Quote (Magikarpet @ Feb 26 2011 12:46pm)

tl;dr

You're wrong.

Quote (Kisssofdeath @ Feb 26 2011 01:01pm)

What basis do make you accusation on, especially if you say it was to long and didnt read it?

Quote (Magikarpet @ Feb 26 2011 03:33pm)

Common sense

Quote (Kisssofdeath @ Feb 26 2011 03:44pm)

LOL, ok then. I guess you are finished with this post.

Quote (AsianChexMix @ Feb 25 2011 01:25pm)

This is still aching for me so I shall ask you this:

What is the purpose of baptism? I'd like to hear the argument in what baptism does according to what you believe. Is there a purpose of the baptism? For everyone else who has commented on this subject, we are on the side that it's just an action in response to what God has done for us but you're saying it's essential. What is the purpose behind the baptism? Just curious and please make it brief as possible. I don't want like an essay.

Quote (AsianChexMix @ Feb 26 2011 04:27pm)

You didn't address this

Quote (Torm1 @ Feb 26 2011 05:23pm)

Once you've been changed by Jesus, you're cleansed or baptised from previous sin.

Therefore, you go your way and sin no more because Jesus is doing it.