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May 13 2011 12:02pm
Quote (Rickie @ 13 May 2011 13:02)
Yes, i did demonstrate free will, what i'm trying to say is he can't be all knowing and there also be free will, they don't go hand in hand...it's either one or the other. It's logical.


Do you believe in God?
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May 13 2011 12:05pm
Quote (njaguar @ May 13 2011 02:02pm)
Do you believe in God?


As i've already said, i'm a christian. Or i would have never even checked this forum. I don't believe in him being all knowing, just all powerful.

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May 13 2011 12:05pm
Quote (Rickie @ May 13 2011 02:02pm)
Yes, i did demonstrate free will, what i'm trying to say is he can't be all knowing and there also be free will, they don't go hand in hand...it's either one or the other. It's logical.


Seriously? That's not Logical. Yes He is All Knowing. He knew Lucifer was going to Rebel. But He didn't make Lucifer rebel. That was free will. There IS an All Knowing, All Powerful, All Loving God, and there IS free will. You aren't being forced to do anything, you make your own decisions, and God knows your decisions. That's all. It's not hard to understand. He knows what you'll do, but you are still the one doing it. He doesn't decide your future, He just knows your future. Why is this such a hard concept to grasp?
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May 13 2011 12:07pm
Quote (Rickie @ 13 May 2011 13:05)
As i've already said, i'm a christian. Or i would have never even checked this forum. I don't believe in him being all knowing, just all powerful.


If he is not all knowing, he cannot be all powerful. If he is neither, he is man. Haven't you heard the saying: "knowledge is power"?
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May 13 2011 12:08pm
Quote (njaguar @ May 13 2011 02:07pm)
If he is not all knowing, he cannot be all powerful. If he is neither, he is man.


Why be all knowing and create something that has "free will" if you already know what their will is? Especially if he puts effort into each and every one of us, then why would he create some of us to fail?
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May 13 2011 12:13pm
Quote (Rickie @ 13 May 2011 13:08)
Why be all knowing and create something that has "free will" if you already know what their will is? Especially if he puts effort into each and every one of us, then why would he create some of us to fail?


How can he create everything without being all knowing?

Do you have a screensaver on your computer? Have you seen the lines moving around the screen one? I'm sure you have. In mathematics, you can create some really interesting designs using formulas, etc. Why bother when we know what the end outcome will ultimately be? Because sometimes it's still beautiful (and sometimes not), even when you know what the result will be.
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May 13 2011 12:16pm
Because even if only one person in the history of the world was going to be saved, than it was worth it for God. That's how much He loves us.
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May 13 2011 12:20pm
Quote (njaguar @ May 13 2011 02:13pm)
How can he create everything without being all knowing?

Do you have a screensaver on your computer? Have you seen the lines moving around the screen one? I'm sure you have. In mathematics, you can create some really interesting designs using formulas, etc. Why bother when we know what the end outcome will ultimately be? Because sometimes it's still beautiful (and sometimes not), even when you know what the result will be.


Thats the core of my belief, i don't believe he created everything...i believe he pushed it along, but did not create it...

And you're right, all humans do have free will, but he already knows what we choose so,..
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May 13 2011 12:21pm
Quote (Rickie @ May 13 2011 02:20pm)
Thats the core of my belief, i don't believe he created everything...i believe he pushed it along, but did not create it...

And you're right, all humans do have free will, but he already knows what we choose so,..


Well that's the first problem. You are trying to mix this world and God, and that just doesn't work. God is all powerful, all knowing, and all loving. He didn't just "push this world along" but He created it. He is the creator.
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May 13 2011 04:15pm
Quote (Rickie @ May 13 2011 01:09pm)
There is hard, and easy, then theres impossible. It is physically impossible to prevent yourself from lusting. Why would something be created that is impossible to overcome...


Quote (Rickie @ May 13 2011 12:07pm)
Why would God create something that could never possibly follow his own standards?


God didn't create us that way. He made us perfect and without the knowledge of good and evil. That knowledge came from the tree in the Garden of Eden of which God told us not to eat. There was no sin in the spirit of man until Adam and Eve ate of the fruit after the serpent's deception.

Quote (Rickie @ May 13 2011 12:07pm)
Obviously there are things you cannot control, therefore how can you ever fight against it?.


That's a victim's mentality. 2 Timothy says: "For God has not given us a spirit of fear and timidity, but of power, love, and self-discipline." There are things that we cannot control, but our emotions are not one of them. Marshaling one's emotions is a worthy objective. Your actions resultant of any emotions (even those considered "bad") can be positive.

Quote (Rickie @ May 13 2011 01:24pm)
You yourself can agree that humans are imperfect. Meaning all of our actions are in some degree imperfect. Written words from God have been rewritten thousands of times over the years, have you read an original bible? has anyone read an original bible? Voiding my argument by not facing it does not solve it. Its the fundamental meaning of your belief, correct? Then defend it with reasoning instead of saying we are imperfect EXCEPT when it comes to one thing...That's pulling straws...


"5For the LORD is good; his mercy is everlasting; and his truth endureth to all generations."

"35Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away."

"8The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever."

"6The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
7Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever."

The New Testament must be fallible because when it quotes the OT it has to translate from Hebrew to Greek, right?

Quote (Rapture @ May 13 2011 01:28pm)
Predicting is not the same as knowing. Your children can still surprise you. You do not KNOW what they will do, they still have free will. However with God, he knows, and has plans accordingly. There is no free will.


Knowledge of what will happen beforehand doesn't prove non-existence of free will. I don't understand how this point can be misconstrued. You can have knowledge of how an event will unfold without altering the manner in which the event will occur. Planning for an event doesn't mean that God has forced us to choose one path over the other. "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land." God tells us if we choose certain paths, not when.

Quote (Rickie @ May 13 2011 01:38pm)
if he knows my very thoughts and decisions, why would he care enough to follow them if he already knows every path i choose

He already knows what we will choose, the moment the choice comes up, especially if he is all knowing, so if he knows our entire life already, then wheres the happiness come from? How can you be happy and all knowing at the same time....sure there is some gratification in being right, But on that spectrum?


You don't understand agape. "The Lord directs the steps of the godly. He delights in every detail of their lives."

Quote (njaguar @ May 13 2011 01:34pm)
Perhaps you should do some studies into that, and not assume. We have found some very old copies of the bible, that all modern translations are based upon. It turns out that the copies over the years were almost identical to the original, so your thoughts on the matter are wrong, and have been proven wrong.


The thousands of gathered translations which the KJV draw on have differences of only spelling errors made by the copyists as far as I recall. I'm not sure about others.

Quote (Rickie @ May 13 2011 02:20pm)
Thats the core of my belief, i don't believe he created everything...i believe he pushed it along, but did not create it...


Re-read Genesis.
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