Quote (Conviction @ Dec 4 2010 07:14am)
god still has control over things
I don't think god has any control. Isn't he all knowing and knows the future? He knows everything that happens in the next 100 years for example.
He cannot suddenly decide to control someone as then his future plan is not right anymore because something unexpected has happened.
They say he lives out of time. Hence before and after doesn't really exist for him. That's a notion we cannot understand so how can we argue for something we don't even know what it is? Am I not suppossed to argue for things I understand?
Lots of religous arguments are based on poor logic and when they receive valid counterarguments that are hard to answer suddenly no more logic is used but it is said we cannot understand this matter but thats how it is.
I mean please make your mind up either use logic or say we cannot understand the world but not rely on logic till it gets difficult and then start explaining matters outside logic in a metaphysical way. Its unfair if a religious person argues like an atheist in a rational manner and when problems arrive says its kind of magic we cannot think into that only god can.
its either religious people are easily convinced of stories or they are just smarter and I am just ignorant of something, being too stupid to understand. Do I have to remain agnostic for ever or can someone enlighten me which way to go?
Tell me how to become a believer and I will try it. What I will not try is to read the bible over and over again and learn it by heart because no matter what it is if you read about a certain matter or hear it repeatedly for a long period of time you will start to believe in it be it right or not. So please give me a valid way to become a believer, an argument or tell me how you started to believe.
If for example my father helps a man and gives him food for a long period of time. Then that man tries harm on my father by putting cocaine in his drink (cocaine can also be given in a food form) for a prolonged period of time. Cocaine eventually as it is known can cause paranoid thinking which is basically that you do not trust anybody. Years later he becomes a child. Lets assume I am that child and I have inherited the paranoia that was caused by the guy mixing cocaine into my fathers drink. As a result I do not trust anything and find it is hard to believe in the bible.
Isn't it that those who pray can clean themselves of sins whereas those who do not pray hence have a disadvantage in that matter. Therefore the guy with parania who most likely will not become a believer has a disadvantage here and will live with his sins. According to religious believers I think they believe it is much better for you to be a believer then not to be a believer. Hence I am much worse of then a believer. Would god allow such unfairness? Its especially odd because its absolutely not my responsibility if a crack head puts cocaine into my fathers drink and I inherit his medical condition! But I will greatly suffer for it.
Now the only way out for a believer is to say "that thats how god thought it to be right and it is right because there are far more things to it I am not aware and incapable of understanding". Imagine you are the believer and you have just said exactly that sentence: that thats how god thought it to be right and it is right because there are far more things to it I am not aware and incapable of understanding". I beg you to think for one moment. When you spoke that sentence out did you say it because you really believed it or because you just wanted to defend your thesis? Its an obvious rethorical question.
It is something deep down in my feeling that tells me when I hear things similar to the one sentence just mentioned that something just doesn't feel right.
This post was edited by White_Light on Jan 16 2011 08:55am