Colossians 1:16 (New King James Version)
16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.

Why would God create sin "for Him"? Doesn't make sense. I'm really not sure how you include sin in "everything". Sin is something achieved by transgressing God's law or Will. It's not even logical to think such a thing. It goes against God's nature.

God did not create sin. God is holy and He would not create that which is against His nature. Sinfulness is the opposite of holiness. It is lawlessness (1 John 3:4). God is the author of the Law which is a reflection of His holy character (Exodus 20). Therefore, God cannot create that which is in direct violation of the Law any more than a person can wish himself to be bigger than the sun. It just isn’t possible.

God granted man free will so we would be able to make our own decisions and choices to obey God or not. Free will evidently also existed when God created an angel called Lucifer who was without sin yet, apparently, had free will and chose to rebel against God and sin (Isaiah 14:12-15; Ezek. 28:13-15). Likewise, Adam and Eve, having been made by God without sin, listened to the devil and chose to sin against God (Gen. 3).

But God did not cause them to sin (James 1:13). In the freedom of their wills, each decided to rebel against God and sin entered the world (Rom. 5:12). God simply allowed the condition to exist where sin was possible.

An analogy can be found in the relationship between a boss and his employee. A boss can create the condition that makes disobedience possible yet the boss remains innocent if the employee sins. For example, if the boss tells the employee to take the money and make a deposit at the bank and the employee decides to steal the money and skip town the employee has stolen which is sin. But, the boss is not responsible for the employee’s sin, nor did he cause the employee to sin. The employee had a choice to obey or not to obey.

Likewise, God has created the condition in the world where the ability to rebel against Him was possible. Yet, he is not responsible for that rebellion once it has been committed. Therefore, sin originated with Lucifer who was the first to rebel and entered the world through Adam who likewise chose disobedience.

1 Corinthians 14:33 (New King James Version)
33 For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.

There are no contradictions in the Bible. Easy to understand verses should be taken into consideration when interpreting difficult ones. I'm not saying all of God's word is easy to understand, obviously it is not. However, one must have a basic foundation of belief before starting. As I said, God did not and cannot create sin. Reasons being have already been mentioned. If you believer otherwise then that is also your choice.

There aren't enough letters in the word wrong to describe the wrongness of most of this thread.

Mere human beings can not hold back from sin forever. We're too weak. Those who would tell you they've done it themselves are lying. It is on God's strength that we overcome sin, not on our own.

# Eph. 2:8-9, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God. 9Not by works, lest any man should boast."

This is the truth.

Since when do logic and the bible go together? The bible is quite clear. God created everything both seen and unseen. I include sin in everything because thats what everything means. You don't get to pick certain things out and say God didn't create this. Your best bet would be to argue that the bible is poorly translated.



Luke 18:27


God is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent. Nothing isn't possible for God.

Expanding on this omniscience, God knew Satan would sin but created him anyway. God knew Satan would tempt eve and allowed it to happen. God knew this would result in endless people being condemned to hell but chose not to stop it.



Your analogy is obscenely flawed. For starters God created all of us. A manager does not create his employees. Additionally a manager is not omniscient. If the manager knows an employee is going to steal money and does nothing to prevent it the manager is not innocent.


As for free will. Free will is an illusion. If our bodies, minds, souls, and environment are all created by God how can you claim any of us has the free will to do anything other than what we were created to do? I'd prefer to not derail into that discussion though but if you have anything legitimate to contribute that you think will convince me otherwise please feel free to. Please note, scripture saying we have free will isn't what I consider "legitimate". Try using that logic you talked about in your post. If I create a computer program I can't say it has free will. Likewise if I roll a ball down a hill, I can't claim it has the power to stop.

LOL, hey, if that is your stance, don't let me try to change your mind as you will not change mine. You will have to believe your way and I will believe mine. You have presented your side and I have presented mine. There is no point in sitting here and debating it further. Let he who reads them decide what to believe.

This post was edited by Kisssofdeath on Mar 16 2011 09:56pm

Once again you choose to pick an argument with me then refuse to debate your point after getting trashed.

At least you're consistent.

Can you at least admit how completely retarded your analogy is?

Yes every sin is TECHNICALLY a choice.

Yes every person will mess up and choose wrong from time to time.

It is important to remember that not every sin stemmed from impurity, so I guess it's a good thing that my God extends his grace. Otherwise I'd be on a one way ticket to the darkest deepest depths of Hell!

No, I knew all along God did not create or was responsible for sin. I asked a question to see where your view was coming from. After getting your reply of Colossians 1:16 you had given your point of view or your basis for your assumption. That is exactly what it was and is, an assumption on your part. After this I presented my side and by scripture, and clearly indicated God did not create sin that Lucifer did.

I am mature enough that I am not going to sit here and keep argueing about this because it is pointless with you. I could easily keep going on why God is not responsible for evil but you will just pick and choose "out of context" any verse you want to suite your moment. You randomly pick out a verse such as above Luke 18:27 without picking up the verses before and after it.

Luke 18:25-29 (New King James Version)

25 For it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”
26 And those who heard it said, “Who then can be saved?”
27 But He said, “The things which are impossible with men are possible with God.”
28 Then Peter said, “See, we have left all and followed You.”
29 So He said to them, “Assuredly, I say to you, there is no one who has left house or parents or brothers or wife or children, for the sake of the kingdom of God,

It is clear in this verse that Jesus is telling the disciples not to worry, don't be afraid, I have provided a way for salvation. This is a huge problem with most bible quoters "such as yourself". They do not take into account who the audience is and what is the time period is and the subject at the moment. People pick a single verse without any regard to anything else to suite their purpose. You, my friend are not as smart as you think you are. This needs to be pointed this out so all the readers will know the facts about how you choose to present yourself.

My analogy was spot on. It presented my point very clearly and should be understandable to all who read it except you, who would reject the analogy no matter what was said.

I'm to the point I don't feel the need to defend myself everytime you make an accusation against me. I think the people on this forum see that. Have a good day.

indeed.... finaly

yep

well said =)