Quote (Mezen @ Oct 9 2010 12:26am)

cu de gra // suicide

both stop un-nessesary pain

if someone is in extreme pain day after day, you think their children are gonna say, "hold out for 20 more days and then die?"

If someone can recover their soul from murdering someone, through jesus, then suicide is no game over

Quote (Conviction @ 4 Sep 2010 21:12)

for the believer, suciide seems like a pretty selfish thing to do (one reason being that you're not doing the will of god (the will of god is kinda like what he has planned for you and what he wants you to do in your life) another reason is that you might have others that love you and need you... if you are a believer, you won't go to hell no matter what it says in John 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
this verse refers to those who have believed to god

the case with judas iscariot, he must've not been saved in the first place, much like there's many many people in the church today, who claim to be christians but never really fully understood the plan of salvation, they have not put their trust fully on jesus christ, you can act like you're a christian, you can talk like you're a christian, but you better make sure you have a connection with jesus christ, not some religion, which is really important
It says in Matthew 7:22-23 (King James Version)
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
This speaks of those pretenders who believe that it's acts or works or crawling on their knees for hours or following jesus for 3 years on the earth (like judas did), unfortunately there are those who are so close to the knowledge of God but do not have the faith to accept him by faith alone

the case with saul is different, back in the old testament days, christ has not died on the cross yet, in the old testament days, the way to be saved was to have faith in the christ to come, soul as the first king of Israel would have to have known this especially, one of the requirements as a king of Israel was to read the history of Israel and the Pentateuch, which was the first 5 books of the bible and only books written at that time penned by Moses, not only did they have to read it, the king would have to re-write the whole pentateuch in his own handwriting, this ensures taht he does not miss any part of the commandments God placed on the Israelites, so in essence, each king of Israel had the opportunity to be saved, and lead the people of Israel in the ways of God, Saul having known this and believing in Christ was coming must have been saved ( i say must have because i do not know the true heart of man as i am not God who is the only one who can know)

summary - suicide has nothing to do with going to heaven or hell
i hope this answers ur question

Quote (CPK001 @ 9 Oct 2010 02:23)

With murdering, you can repent that. You can't repent suiciding.

Quote (CPK001 @ 7 Oct 2010 18:26)

Ahhhh, the old big words with lots of quotes so therefore lots of reading to make you seem very smart to outgun me. You still haven't given a reason as to why I am out of line. Let's see you quoted bible verses the first 3 lines and with what you yourself said you are now saying that I should rephrase my previous post in a way that provides love about it so that I don't hurt your feelings most likely.

Okay, so we are SUPPOSEDto speak the truth in love. We are also SUPPOSED to back up our statements when somebody asks you to expand as to why you feel the way you do.

I've had this argument so many times where somebody tells me that I'm wrong and I reply with why they feel that way. They have never actually answered it, they always drift off into some other irrelevant topic that has nothing to do with the original topic at hand.

I've been down that road before Borbang. It's called experience.

Quote (CPK001 @ Oct 8 2010 03:15am)

I'll break this down in boldness, 1st bold:

So you want a reason as to why suicide brings you to hell? Some people would see suicide as a shortcut to get to heaven because this world is so bad. I don't want to live this life anymore so therefore I'll jump off a building at the age of 16 so I can go to heaven and skip this world thing.

If Jesus had to die for our sins, why didn't HE suicide? It is because suicide is a blasphemy and is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. Suicide is a sign of: Lost all of your faith in everything including God and in life, Lost all hope, everything to you is dead spiritually and mentally, and also a sign of cowardess to escape the worlds grip on you.

2nd bold:

What good news are you talking about? There is nothing good at all whatsoever if you go to hell. Hey you are going to hell (Bad news) but the good news is that I won't be seeing you there! (Good news?)

Have you read the book of Jonah? The part when he tells the village that "Ninevah will be overturned in 40 days." Jonah doesn't even say anything about repenting or there being good news whatsoever.

3rd bold:

I judge? It sounds like you were judging me the way you tried to make out what kind of person I am on that very same line.

Quote (Borbang @ 10 Oct 2010 17:24)

The Gospel is the good news. The Gospel literally means "good news". The bad news is that every single human being faces condemnation to hell for their sin. The Good news is that Jesus Christ has made a ransom for sinners, that Christ imputed his righteousness to us by his shed blood on the cross.  Your salvation is granted by the unmerited favor of God AKA Grace.

You know what that makes me feel like? Humble. My sins were that bad, to have the God of the universe send his Son to die for me. Also, I did nothing to deserve this gift. Also, I am totally and utterly dependent on God's grace that I persevere to the end. It does not make me boast in myself, like I have this strong faith that makes me acceptable to God. God accepts me because of what his Son did on the cross. I boast in Christ on the Cross.

Suicide is Sin. Suicide can be a result of hateful pride, or brought on by momentary despair of the moment and in haste commits sin in not trusting God in the situation. I don't know about you, but what christian doesn't struggle with entrusting God with the things of his or her life. Its a process.  Don't presume to know the heart of that person who chooses to end their own life. We can't judge the heart.

Am I judging you? Yes I am, I am rebuking you for how you have acted and represented Christ on the message board. Its biblical. and I am trying to do it out of love.

I want good for you CPK001.  I don't have bad feelings for you, I just want you on the right track bro.

Quote (Borbang @ Oct 11 2010 10:24am)

The Gospel is the good news. The Gospel literally means "good news". The bad news is that every single human being faces condemnation to hell for their sin. The Good news is that Jesus Christ has made a ransom for sinners, that Christ imputed his righteousness to us by his shed blood on the cross. Your salvation is granted by the unmerited favor of God AKA Grace.

You know what that makes me feel like? Humble. My sins were that bad, to have the God of the universe send his Son to die for me. Also, I did nothing to deserve this gift. Also, I am totally and utterly dependent on God's grace that I persevere to the end. It does not make me boast in myself, like I have this strong faith that makes me acceptable to God. God accepts me because of what his Son did on the cross. I boast in Christ on the Cross.

Suicide is Sin. Suicide can be a result of hateful pride, or brought on by momentary despair of the moment and in haste commits sin in not trusting God in the situation. I don't know about you, but what christian doesn't struggle with entrusting God with the things of his or her life. Its a process. Don't presume to know the heart of that person who chooses to end their own life. We can't judge the heart.

Am I judging you? Yes I am, I am rebuking you for how you have acted and represented Christ on the message board. Its biblical. and I am trying to do it out of love.

I want good for you CPK001. I don't have bad feelings for you, I just want you on the right track bro.

Quote (Borbang @ Oct 12 2010 11:31am)

Matthew 7 is a great chapter, however make sure that you read the rest of the passage. Skim down to verse 5 "first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye." The injunction here is that we deal with our personal sin first ( plank out of your own eye) and then deal with the sin of our brothers ( remove the speck from your brother's eye).

You are also forgetting:

James 5:20 "Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save him from death and cover over a multitude of sins."
1 Timothy 5:19-20"Do not entertain an accusation against an elder unless it is brought by two or three witnesses. 20Those who sin are to be rebuked publicly, so that the others may take warning."
Titus 2:15 "These, then, are the things you should teach. Encourage and rebuke with all authority. Do not let anyone despise you."

Don't commit the logical fallacy of Equivocation by using a vague word like " judge". There are clear commands in the Bible that we are to hold each other responsible.
"Explain suiciding through 'hateful pride.' You were very vague on that. Pride doesn't make you suicide."

Your statement is ridiculous. Pride is the root issue of every sin. Pride is the reason of the first sin of Adam and Eve. Every time you sin you are displaying to God that you think you know better than him. That you can trust your judgment over his. Proverbs 12:15 "The way of a fool seems right to him, but a wise man listens to advice" . Proverbs 16:18 "Pride goes before destruction, a haughty spirit before a fall."

Quote (CPK001 @ Oct 11 2010 08:09pm)

Okay but if we think we know better than God, how will that cause us to suiciding over it? Pride means you think highly of yourself and you love yourself. You wouldn't want to kill yourself when you are a very happy person.

Pride means that you won't take any bad things from anybody else, you will stand up for what you believe in as opposed to a 'humble' person who will agree to disagree or a 'low self esteem' person who will easily submit to their respective challenge.

So what, now you can't even defend yourself if you are humble?